The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas
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@act-crusader said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@nepia said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@taniwharugby said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
dont you need to be able to trace/prove your Whakapapa?
Yep, but it’s a NZ team so you need to be an NZ player - e.g. Quade can’t as he’s an Oz contracted player.
The Maori criteria is contracted to a provincial union and Whakapapa
Really? That seems weird to me. Quade should come play some NPC.
Cheers.
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@nepia I guess in theory, as NZM doesnt tie you to NZ, he could, but I suspect there would be somethign in there about NZ eligibility...although someone like Riki Flutely coulda made things interesting if he came back and was upto it
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@stargazer I guess it depends how far you go back in your family history. I'd fit right in with some of these white boys!
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@bovidae I wonder what the criteria are. I understand they're quite strict in applying them nowadays. Is it 1/16th?
Interestingly, Karpik apparently only recently found out about his whakapapa.
Mitch Karpik didn't know much about his Māori heritage until recently, but now it's been discovered he wants to find out more. Making the Māori All Blacks for their tour of the Americas next month is just a bonus. "Whether I made the team or not it's just cool to know where I came from," says the blond haired flanker who was named both the Steamers Player of the Year and Player's Player of the Year at the Bay of Plenty rugby awards on Wednesday night. "It's actually on my mum's side. She traced it back a couple of years ago now and confirmed it with kaumatua down Hawke's Bay way. "Hopefully one day I can get down there with Mum and meet the whanau." -
@stargazer Blood quantum or percentage or fraction is irrelevant to Maori - we go over this every year - it's all based on whakapapa. If you have dead ancestors then you have whakapapa.
If someone with previously unknown whakapapa discovers it through the Maori team then I think that's great as they then have to learn their pepeha (explaining who you are, where you and your people are from etc) in Maori (and learn a few waiata I guess - I'm not a fan of endless singing so I'm not fussed with that). And as Karpik notes he's actually now thinking about heading down to HB to meet his family which will likely involve visiting his Marae etc.
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@stargazer I have no idea on the exact criteria but it would need to be verified. IIRC my father and uncle needed to provide a lot of documentation to become a registered member of their iwi so I would expect a similar process for the NZM.
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@bovidae said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
IIRC my father and uncle needed to provide a lot of documentation to become a registered member of their iwi so I would expect a similar process for the NZM
Each iwi has their own criteria (and lots of people don't even bother enrolling with their iwi) and many require little documentation but the main info needed in most cases would be confirmation from a kaumatua. I'm not enrolled with Kahungunu (through laziness, despite the fact I have written a report about 'enrolling with iwi' in the past) but the main 'proof' is a form with your whakapapa that's been verified by a kaumatua.
I think Matt Te Pou got into it a bit in his book - but it's been so long since I read it I can't quite remember 100%, but I think the Maori team kaumatua often helps out the player if they're having issues following up on their whakapapa (like with Stevenson before last years tour).
@Stargazer I guess my point was that I don't think NZR would have different criteria (such as fractions) than what Maori have.
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@act-crusader said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@booboo said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@tim said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
Didn't go past horizontal, landed on his back not neck or shoulders ... not sure the problem
The problem is that it’s rugby, not WWF. No issue with that sort of thing being dealt with. I wouldn’t even classify that as a tackle.
Yeah, on reflection I get that. And said as much:
@booboo said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
Maybe dropping him?
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@nepia said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
Each iwi has their own criteria (and lots of people don't even bother enrolling with their iwi) and many require little documentation but the main info needed in most cases would be confirmation from a kaumatua.
In my situation this was all done when I lived overseas but the family's reason for enrolling (with Tainui) was to get some of the benefits available to registered members and for my cousin, a university scholarship. The latter wasn't available when I was at Uni. The family also donated a carved walking stick, which I assume was done in conjunction with the local kaumatua as they held an official ceremony.
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@bovidae said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@nepia said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
Each iwi has their own criteria (and lots of people don't even bother enrolling with their iwi) and many require little documentation but the main info needed in most cases would be confirmation from a kaumatua.
In my situation this was all done when I lived overseas but the family's reason for enrolling (with Tainui) was to get some of the benefits available to registered members and for my cousin, a university scholarship. The latter wasn't available when I was at Uni. The family also donated a carved walking stick, which I assume was done in conjunction with the local kaumatua as they held an official ceremony.
Meh, Tainui.
Just kidding. What was up with the carved walking stick? Do Tainui require that? Did someone in your family carve it? IIRC (from my report, which was about Maori living overseas registering for their iwi) Tainui and Ngai Tahu require a bit more than other iwi - which no doubt is due to their large putea (their bank balances).
When were you at uni? You would have been eligible for Maanaki Tauira which in the early 90s was decent money. It was a set fund distributed based on how many applicants and the fees they pay. In my first two years of uni I got nearly 80% of my fees, then people started bloody discovering their whakapa
(and fees went up) so the percentage dropped by heaps. -
I'll have to ask my father about the circumstances surrounding donating the walking stick. I just remember it always being in my nana's living room but don't know the history behind it.
As far as uni scholarships, I never investigated getting one via Tainui. I do remember my first year's fees in 1988 were $250 so not too expensive.
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@bovidae said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
I'll have to ask my father about the circumstances surrounding donating the walking stick. I just remember it always being in my nana's living room but don't know the history behind it.
As far as uni scholarships, I never investigated getting one via Tainui. I do remember my first year's fees in 1988 were $250 so not too expensive.
You would have been pre-Manaaki Tauira* (which is for all Maori and PI too I think) and pre-Tainui getting their settlement. At any rate you had Uni on a platter for you – unlike us in the early 90s who got all the crappy changes in a row.
*Manaaki Tauira was specifically brought in when the fees were increased in the early 90s to help not disadvantage Maori participation at uni.
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@nepia said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@bovidae said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
I'll have to ask my father about the circumstances surrounding donating the walking stick. I just remember it always being in my nana's living room but don't know the history behind it.
As far as uni scholarships, I never investigated getting one via Tainui. I do remember my first year's fees in 1988 were $250 so not too expensive.
You would have been pre-Manaaki Tauira* (which is for all Maori and PI too I think) and pre-Tainui getting their settlement. At any rate you had Uni on a platter for you – unlike us in the early 90s who got all the crappy changes in a row.
*Manaaki Tauira was specifically brought in when the fees were increased in the early 90s to help not disadvantage Maori participation at uni.
You could have got the Maori Education Fund, which covered my "fees" in 1985
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@dk said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@nepia said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@bovidae said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
I'll have to ask my father about the circumstances surrounding donating the walking stick. I just remember it always being in my nana's living room but don't know the history behind it.
As far as uni scholarships, I never investigated getting one via Tainui. I do remember my first year's fees in 1988 were $250 so not too expensive.
You would have been pre-Manaaki Tauira* (which is for all Maori and PI too I think) and pre-Tainui getting their settlement. At any rate you had Uni on a platter for you – unlike us in the early 90s who got all the crappy changes in a row.
*Manaaki Tauira was specifically brought in when the fees were increased in the early 90s to help not disadvantage Maori participation at uni.
You could have got the Maori Education Fund, which covered my "fees" in 1985
Damn, you oldies really did get a cushy ride.
I have an uncle who did teachers training in the early 80s (he was an often a reserve in the powerful Poo team of that era) and it sounds like the easiest time ever.Did you manage to see the match on Sunday?
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@nepia said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
@dk said in The Māori All Blacks' tour to the Americas:
You could have got the Maori Education Fund, which covered my "fees" in 1985
To be honest, I'd rather someone who didn't have the financial means used that money at that time. A bursary and student allowance provided a decent income for a student.
Damn, you oldies really did get a cushy ride.
So how do you think I felt when my fees went up 400% in my third year! I had less money to spend on the important things for a student, like booze.
I spoke to my father regarding the walking stick. The story (which I never knew) was it was given to my great grandfather by a local Maori after he healed him of some sickness. This would have been in early 1900s so the walking stick is likely 100 years old. I'll need to visit Hopuhopu to see what other connection there is.
