Use of the TMO
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Good article fella.
I'd he happy to go to an NFL style tmo, where the ref makes a call and it gets overturned only if it is clear and obvious.
Also, the game is almost unrefereeable. So many conflicting laws, and so many players pushing the line all the time
Spectators at the ground get treated like rubbish, and that could be done better. Big screen, or an announcement on the PA.
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Just for the in-goal is all I'm interested in.
But ...
Because they've let the forward pass rule gets so 'flat', the margin of error is ridiculous and a ref can't pick it up with his naked eye. (but TMOs can't rule consistently on forward passes either .... and might have to use the 'best' possible camera angle which is at 45 degrees for passes near the try line )
Because they've let obstruction become semi-legal if it isn't material, a ref is seeing countless bodies moving in front of the ball, with some slightly impeding and others not, and can't tell anymore.
My solution would require a lot of clocks to be turned back, and I obviously don't see any of that happening.
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@pukunui said in Use of the TMO:
Maybe the two ref system is the solution to reducing the influence of the tmo. One ref to watch the offside line and then off the ball stuff. The other to watch the breakdown and tackles. Linesmen to do whatever they do now (which seems to be not much)
The problem with that is the blindside assistant is supposed to watch the breakdown while the openside helps with offside.
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@pukunui said in Use of the TMO:
Maybe the two ref system is the solution to reducing the influence of the tmo. One ref to watch the offside line and then off the ball stuff. The other to watch the breakdown and tackles. Linesmen to do whatever they do now (which seems to be not much)
not sure it's a success in the NRL, which is a much easier game to referee. Imagine as a player dealing with two different "feels" for the game
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Lots of contradiction in responses.
Rugby Union has and will always sit somewhere between American Football and Basketball in terms of continuity and flow.
That's what makes it Rugby Union.
Some matches the needle is slowed towards American Football by TMO involvement, some matches it isn't.
But the TMO process is here, and it's here to stay thankfully.
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try.
Arbitrarily tracking back 1, 2 or X phases is nonsensical IMHO.
Is it perfect? Far from it.
Is it better? For me, yes.
There are a number of things which can change to make the game faster, but when the TMO is employed it should always be a measured, thoughtful process.
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@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
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@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
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@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
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@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
Ah the old Antipodean 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission '
So shut infringements down at source, and if they're missed c'est la vie
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@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
Ah the old Antipodean 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission '
That's my mantra as a married man, yes.
Just seen your edit. yes. if you get away with it in real time, you get away with it.
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@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
Ah the old Antipodean 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission '
That's my mantra as a married man, yes.
Just seen your edit. yes. if you get away with it in real time, you get away with it.
Due to human nature, this will unfortunately favour the rule breakers over the play makers IMHO
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@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
Ah the old Antipodean 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission '
That's my mantra as a married man, yes.
Just seen your edit. yes. if you get away with it in real time, you get away with it.
Due to human nature, this will unfortunately favour the rule breakers over the play makers IMHO
all rugby players are rule breakers. all of them. some of them intentionally, some by accident, some out of desperation. But everyone, everyone breaks the rules of rugby during the game to gain an advantage.
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@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
Ah the old Antipodean 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission '
That's my mantra as a married man, yes.
Just seen your edit. yes. if you get away with it in real time, you get away with it.
Due to human nature, this will unfortunately favour the rule breakers over the play makers IMHO
all rugby players are rule breakers. all of them. some of them intentionally, some by accident, some out of desperation. But everyone, everyone breaks the rules of rugby during the game to gain an advantage.
It's that first group of bastards which worries me.
Next stop, wendyball.
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@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
Ah the old Antipodean 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission '
That's my mantra as a married man, yes.
Just seen your edit. yes. if you get away with it in real time, you get away with it.
Due to human nature, this will unfortunately favour the rule breakers over the play makers IMHO
all rugby players are rule breakers. all of them. some of them intentionally, some by accident, some out of desperation. But everyone, everyone breaks the rules of rugby during the game to gain an advantage.
What can we expect?
When William Webb Ellis picked up the ball and ran with it he was breaking the cardinal rule!
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If the choice is between quick decision and correct decision then i would choose correct decision every time. Who am i kidding, i have nowhere else to be other than sitting on my arse watching the rugby.
Problem is that the tmo still often manages to get it wrong. -
@pukunui said in Use of the TMO:
If the choice is between quick decision and correct decision then i would choose correct decision every time. Who am i kidding, i have nowhere else to be other than sitting on my arse watching the rugby.
Problem is that the tmo still often manages to get it wrong.Indeed, and then the judiciary still has a chance to over rule the TMO, regardless of anything.
Too many layers, too much inconsistency.
Nothing else to add.
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@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@mikethesnow said in Use of the TMO:
If we want multiple phase, flowing rugby then the TMO process has to start where the first transgression is thought to have happened. If that's 15 phases back then so be it. We've just enjoyed a 15 phase high speed chess match which may or may not have resulted in a try
what. the. fuck.
and what, precisely, should we be looking at 15 phases back michael? tiny knock ons? suspect side entry? at some point in that 15 phases i can guarantee someone transgressed. Why do you hate points michael? is it because you are Welsh and you don't really know what they are?
So if I've read your reply correctly, rugby union is all about scoring points (tries) and it doesn't matter if there were single or multiple infringements leading up to the scoring of said points (tries) as long as it was dotted down ok and we don't have to sit through interminable seconds or minutes of TMO procrastination then 'it's all good'.
kinda. I'm saying any stretch of phases is going to involve a heap of infringements that would be picked up by slow motion and endless replays. That's rugby. If you give carte blanche powers to a TMO to just go back and look at shit, nearly every try is going to get rubbed out.
IMO the game is so fluid it is actually about what you get away with.
Ah the old Antipodean 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission '
That's my mantra as a married man, yes.
Just seen your edit. yes. if you get away with it in real time, you get away with it.
Due to human nature, this will unfortunately favour the rule breakers over the play makers IMHO
all rugby players are rule breakers. all of them. some of them intentionally, some by accident, some out of desperation. But everyone, everyone breaks the rules of rugby during the game to gain an advantage.
It's that first group of bastards which worries me.
Next stop, wendyball.
That was me. Definitely deliberate when required
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In my opinion there needs to be a balance between time taken on the TMO and bad decisions that are still made. Cut down the time taken and don't use a TMO too much. Not sure if it would help to have a limited time for the TMO to make a decision (or should I say they can only view it so many times /different angles). TMOs seem to be used for every try at times and bitchslap (but then the ref just gives a penalty).
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Don’t know what you’re all going on about.
It’s grand.
When’s the next game?
