2018 New Zealand U20s
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@stargazer said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
Pfew, I was expecting Renton to be sent off for stomping. French were milking it. TMO involved; penalty only. His foot didn't touch the French head.
Hard to see how that was a penalty only. Looked deliberate and that should be a card.
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@antipodean I didn't see a replay, but IIRC, the TMO looked at it off-screen. Obviously, the TMO had more angles, so he probably had a good view of Renton's foot made any contact with the French player and where. It didn't look good in real time, but I don't have to benefit of the TMO's footage. We'll see whether he gets cited or not.
Edit: Just saw this clip and it doesn't look good.
I wouldn't be surprised if he gets cited, and the length of the possible suspension will probably depend on whether/where he hit the French player and any resulting injury.
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@stargazer What a dipshit, you can't do that in this day an age.
So this team was Philpott coached?
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@chris-b That's not how it works. The citing commissioner can only cite red cardable offences. Accidental offences are hardly ever red cardable, so won't get cited. In the case of stomping, I think it's hard to argue that it's accidental anyway; it's more likely to be reckless. That could reach the red card threshhold and get cited.
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@stargazer I think that is how it works - otherwise how did Squire escape?
The citing commissioner cites things that in his opinion reach the red card threshold - he's the policeman.
The judiciary then hold a hearing - they're the court.
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@stargazer That's what I'm saying.
The process is very much like the civil court system. The citing commissioner acts like the police and "brings charges" i.e. things he thinks meet the red card threshold.
Then there's a hearing and players can plead guilty or not guilty. If they plead"not guilty", they get to defend their actions and the JC either agree with the commissioner or agree with the player (as in Squire's case).
In this case, that footage looks pretty damning, but it's possible e.g. that Renton has caught his foot on the French player and stumbled onto him rather than stamping him - and maybe there will be footage from another angle that might support that case. Or maybe Renton has been a dirty bastard who will get deservedly banned.
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@chris-b Sorry, I understood your comment as meaning that - because there was a serious incident - this was enough reason to cite the player and then let the Judicial Committee decide whether its intentional or accidental.
That's why I said that the Citing Commissioner can only cite red-cardable offences and to do that, he must himself determine whether an incident meets the red card trheshold, and for that he himself has to establish whether it was reckless or accidental. So it's the CC in the first instance who has to make that determination.
A lot of people seem to think (maybe not you) that the CC can just cite any serious looking incident and leave it to the JC to determine whether it's reckless or accidental. Accidental incidents don't reach the JC very often.
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@stargazer Incidents like this one, I tend to give the player a bit of benefit of the doubt, because with referees and TV cameras watching it is highly unlikely you're going to get away with blatantly stamping on someone.
So you've got to be both a grub and an idiot!
Incidentally, was interesting to see Owen Franks on TV a couple of nights ago saying he didn't even know he'd collected Parsons until he saw it on the big screen. At a different point in the season, I reckon he might have pleaded not guilty on that one.
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@chris-b said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
@stargazer Incidents like this one, I tend to give the player a bit of benefit of the doubt, because with referees and TV cameras watching it is highly unlikely you're going to get away with blatantly stamping on someone.
So you've got to be both a grub and an idiot!
Incidentally, was interesting to see Owen Franks on TV a couple of nights ago saying he didn't even know he'd collected Parsons until he saw it on the big screen. At a different point in the season, I reckon he might have pleaded not guilty on that one.
These guys are too young to have adjusted their behaviour for TV cameras, this is their first taste of televised rugby and the millions of qualified citing commisioners armed with gif tools on twitter.
Looks like the scrummy is trying to pretend he is getting his feet tangled up with a guy lying on the wrong side and uses it as an opportunity to put in a sly stamp on the inside of the forearm. His trailing leg also catches the guy in the face in a backwards kicking motion.
You could give him the benefit of the doubt on the trailing leg. But again a bit like Telea v Wales U20, even if giving that - while deliberately performing one lesser foul he has feasibly accidentally committed a worse foul.
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but can't quite. E.g. he's acting to make it look like the first stamp is accidental, it's not convincing. The second stamp there is an element of doubt about intent - but as he is already pretending that the first stamp is accidental, well ......
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I don't see many of these NZU20 forwards wearing an AB jersey in the future. Flanders maybe but the others are soft. McWhannel has a good workrate but too skinny. Plummer and Koroi were pretty disappointing. I reckon the backs missed their big men (Telea and Faingaanuku) but their basic skills were poor. They just could not stand the pressure.
