TSF Book Club

Dodge

I've read the Eagle series and they're quite fun but they're a bit simple and formulaic, especially compared to Iggulden. Maybe worth trying the Shardlake novels by C J Sansom - I liked his Winter in Madrid book too. 
 
On an entirely separate subject, I've just finished Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. It is literally the best non fiction book I've ever read, if you ever were suspicious of homeopaths, or big pharma companies, or cosmetic companies, of vitamin supplements or NUTRITIONISTS (seriously, i had no idea how much of a racket this is) then this is the book for you, it is a genuinely impressive and incredibly well written analysis of how placebo works, on what Western Medicine could learn from the alternative therapies etc. If you read one non fiction / science book in your life I implore you to make it this one, you will feel different about the world around you and you will become an insufferable know all at parties. You must read this book, in fact I love it so much I might start a thread about it.

booboo

"Nothing to Envy" by Barbara Demick
 
OK - so I'm aware that North Korea is a fucked up country, run by a family of madmen and lunatics for the last 70 odd years.
 
But seriously I had no idea just how fucked up.
 
If you want to get a handle on the descent of North Korea read this book.
 
I nearly didn't as it promised to focus on lives and relationships of some idividuals who lived in NK through the 1990s (and who eventually escaped to SK) and I'm just not into fluffy personal stuff. But I'm glad I did as gave perspective to the decline of the "civilisation" around them in the context of the ultra-controlling state and the laws and regulations and restrictions of society in addition to the state control. There were/are very strict social classes - in direct contradiction of the marxist/socialist principals NK supposedly espoused.
 
NK apparently started off more affluent that SK but it appears stagnated and was overtaken, relflecting the capitalism v. communism struggle as a whole.
 
The fall of communism and the USSR in particular plunged NK into major recession as the USSR supplied them with cheap oil. Without that the electricity gridf collapsed, factories closed, fertiliser could not be produced, and agricultural production essentially ceased.
 
I was unaware of the grinding famine that resulted. 
 
People ended up dying of starvation despite eating anything from sparrows they trapped in nets to grass to bark used to bulk out measely amounts of food that they could lay their hands on.
 
By way of illustration check out this image:
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/dramatic-satellite-photo-shows-north-korea-near-total-013138805.html'>http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/dramatic-satellite-photo-shows-north-korea-near-total-013138805.html</a>
 
<img src="http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/OrfcPJgtKHwb_X8yS8djbA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/technews/ran-630-northkorealights-news-head-630w-630w.jpg" alt="ran-630-northkorealights-news-head-630w-">

booboo

More images:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2012/12/new-highly-detailed-image-north-koreas-lack-electrical-infrastructure/4201/'>http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2012/12/new-highly-detailed-image-north-koreas-lack-electrical-infrastructure/4201/</a>

NTA

Girt: The Unauthorised History Of Australia Funny as fuck, but dry as an old stick. Author did some serious research and some of the people who were sold to me in school as being mighty explorers or wise governers were actually utter fluffy bunnies.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="386852" data-time="1377434663">
<div>
Girt: The Unauthorised History Of Australia 
Funny as fuck, but dry as an old stick. Author did some serious research and some of the people who were sold to me in school as being mighty explorers or wise governers were actually utter fluffy bunnies.
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</blockquote>
 
 
Who is that by Nick? I keep meaning to try and track down a copy of Leviathan by John Birmingham, its the unauthorised history of Sydney.

NTA

David Hunt, published by Black Inc http://www.blackincbooks.com/books/girt Excerpt here - gives a really good indicator of the style http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/david-hunt/2013/08/01/1375325870/girt-unauthorised-history-australia

NTA

If you ever get stuck for Aussie books, try the ABC online http://shop.abc.net.au/products/girt-history-of-aust-tpb

dogmeat

Boo Just caught up with yr Nth Korea post. NZ as point of comparison [attachment=1640:NZ-at-Night.jpg]

booboo

Thanks DM.
 
INteresting comparison - but what are we comparing? (honest question)
 
NK has a population of some 25million - NZ 4M. NOt sure of the comparative land areas either

booboo

From Wiki:
 
North Korea:
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_North_Korea' title="Geography of North Korea">Area</a> - Total 120,540 km2 (<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area' title="List of countries and dependencies by area">98th</a>)
46,528 sq mi - Water (%) 4.87
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_North_Korea' title="Demographics of North Korea">Population</a> - 2011 estimate 24,554,000<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-unfpa-3'>[3]</a>(<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population' title="List of countries by population">48th</a>) - 2011 census 24,052,231<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea#cite_note-Nkorea2008-4'>[4]</a>
Density 198.3/km2 513.8/sq mi
 
New Zealand:
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_New_Zealand' title="Geography of New Zealand">Area</a> - Total 268,021 km2 (<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area' title="List of countries and dependencies by area">75th</a>)
103,483 sq mi - Water (%) 1.6<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand#cite_note-10'>[n 4]</a>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand' title="Demographics of New Zealand">Population</a> - June 2013 estimate 4,468,200<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand#cite_note-11'>[7]</a>(<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population' title="List of countries by population">122nd</a>) - 2006 census 4,027,947<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand#cite_note-12'>[8]</a>
Density 16.5/km2 (<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density' title="List of sovereign states and dependent territories by population density">202nd</a>) 42.7/sq mi
 
 
So (in round figures) NZ has twice the area and 20% of the population, and 10% the population density.

jegga

Booboo, Gareth Morgan's latest pointless crusade is about North Korea . Apparently after taking a motorbike trip around there he reckons the stuff you posted is all wrong. 
I think I'll take him seriously when he remembers to wear a life jacket .

dogmeat

Boo I was trying to reinforce your point by showing even a country as sparsely populated as EnZEd lights up more than the People's Republic of KIm

jegga

Been through a few books lately 
No easy day, the story of the Bin Laden raid. It was ok, easy enough to read.
Winters Bone, really enjoyed it. Meth has replaced moonshine in the Ozark's with appalling consequences.
Worm the first digital war by Mark Bowden, he's one of my favourite writers and this was up to his usual standard . Was an eye opener for someone like me who knows next to nothing about how computers work.If you followed the story of the Conficker virus this would be well worth a read.
American Sniper by Chris Kyle, better in a lot of ways than no easy day. While the author was not a particularly likable guy I was pretty shocked to see some nutter killed him earlier in the year.
All hell let loose by Max Hastings, it covered a lot of stuff I didn't know about but not in great detail. The French don't come out particularly well and he doesn't gloss over the allies many many failings. I enjoyed Nemesis more though.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-time="1372146473" data-cid="374823" data-author="Dodge">I've read the Eagle series and they're quite fun but they're a bit simple and formulaic, especially compared to Iggulden. Maybe worth trying the Shardlake novels by C J Sansom - I liked his Winter in Madrid book too. On an entirely separate subject, I've just finished Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. It is literally the best non fiction book I've ever read, if you ever were suspicious of homeopaths, or big pharma companies, or cosmetic companies, of vitamin supplements or NUTRITIONISTS (seriously, i had no idea how much of a racket this is) then this is the book for you, it is a genuinely impressive and incredibly well written analysis of how placebo works, on what Western Medicine could learn from the alternative therapies etc. If you read one non fiction / science book in your life I implore you to make it this one, you will feel different about the world around you and you will become an insufferable know all at parties. You must read this book, in fact I love it so much I might start a thread about it.</blockquote> Thanks Dodge, those Shardlake books were excellent. I reckon they got better and better as the series went on. The final novel set around the sinking of the Mary Rose was bloody awesome. I've just picked up a copy of Winter in Madrid too, am looking forward to reading it next.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="390282" data-time="1378980791">
<div>
Been through a few books lately 
No easy day, the story of the Bin Laden raid. It was ok, easy enough to read.
Winters Bone, really enjoyed it. Meth has replaced moonshine in the Ozark's with appalling consequences.
Worm the first digital war by Mark Bowden, he's one of my favourite writers and this was up to his usual standard . Was an eye opener for someone like me who knows next to nothing about how computers work.If you followed the story of the Conficker virus this would be well worth a read.
American Sniper by Chris Kyle, better in a lot of ways than no easy day. While the author was not a particularly likable guy I was pretty shocked to see some nutter killed him earlier in the year.
All hell let loose by Max Hastings, it covered a lot of stuff I didn't know about but not in great detail. The French don't come out particularly well and he doesn't gloss over the allies many many failings. I enjoyed Nemesis more though.
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</blockquote>
Some of those look worth a read. I'm a fan of Mark Bowden as well so will be reading that one soon. I'm not sure about Max Hastings anymore, I feel he's gone over the peak and is on the way down, unfortunately.
 
I'm currently reading The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe ... I'm actually surprised I've never read it before ... it's a good book. I'm also reading a book called Reamde by Neil Stephenson and I'm about half way through and am unsure of what it's actually about. However, it is a bloody cracking book. It's the first Neil Stephenson book I've read and I'll probably read some more when I'm finished.

jegga

Nepia the Bowden one is very good, when I read the Hastings one I kind of got the feeling he was trying to show off all his obscure knowledge of ww2 and the tone of the book was pretty negative throughout.. I got it on sale I got mixed up and thought I was grabbing Beevors latest book which I'm guessing is much better. I heard Freyberg gets a lot of attention in that one.

jegga

Also check out the film of right stuff, I grabbed it on DVD a while ago and it's as good as the book. Really well cast, especially Yeager . 
I saw a review of a book about those early astronauts wives apparently a fair amount of them are divorced now but they all keep in touch. NASA had them on a very short leash to get the best image they could for the astronauts.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="390385" data-time="1379033076">
<div>
Nepia the Bowden one is very good, when I read the Hastings one I kind of got the feeling he was trying to show off all his obscure knowledge of ww2 and the tone of the book was pretty negative throughout.. I got it on sale I got mixed up and thought I was grabbing Beevors latest book which I'm guessing is much better. I heard Freyberg gets a lot of attention in that one.
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</blockquote>
I'm weary of Beevor now after reading Crete. I was a huge fan after reading Stalingrad and Berlin. But, I used all the same sources as Beevor did for Crete for my MA thesis (and surprisingly kept most of them and my notes) and I don't think a bunch of his conclusions regarding Freyberg are valid (even with an inherent bias as a NZer) and I found that he was selective in his accounts of many of the different battles and skirmishes choosing to completely disregard some regimental histories (rather than utilise them as a tool through a particular lens). He seemed to move a step from 'these are the errors made' which is fair enough, to a more personal attack.
 
However, Stalingrad and Berlin are still cracking books that I'll recommend to anyone with an interest in the subject. 
 
I'm definitely keen to watch The Right Stuff when I finish the book.

jegga

I didn't know he'd done a book about Crete, shame if its not any good because Stalingrad and Berlin were awesome. 
I saw a book at paper plus today about the standoff between kiwi and Tito s troops at Trieste , that's something I've been interested in hearing about. Apparently Tito was promised the area as a reward for joining the allies and they reneged on the deal. I'm probably wrong on the details though.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="390402" data-time="1379040960">
<div>
I didn't know he'd done a book about Crete, shame if its not any good because Stalingrad and Berlin were awesome. 
I saw a book at paper plus today about the standoff between kiwi and Tito s troops at Trieste , that's something I've been interested in hearing about. Apparently Tito was promised the area as a reward for joining the allies and they reneged on the deal. I'm probably wrong on the details though.
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</blockquote>
TBF I think that Beevor has a great writing style, and his books open up history to a bunch of people that don't usually read history. Crete is probably worth reading as it is an easy read (in comparison with some of the books on Greece/Crete out there), you just need to remember he's taken a line in regards to the command structures/leaders on Crete and his focus is Freyberg (whereas the various company commanders deserve more inspection IMHO).
 
I've read about Trieste a bit - good to see there is book about it, from my memory your details seem spot on. We were nearly involved in the first battle of the cold war.

The Silver Fern

TSF Book Club