Exodus 2018
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BEN KAY
March 2 2018, 5:00pm, The Times
England don’t need to change now... but Eddie Jones should pick Brad Shields for Rugby World Cup
Ben KayIf you listen to the debate, bordering on hysteria, that has raged since England’s defeat by Scotland at Murrayfield, Eddie Jones needs to change up to a quarter of his team for the game away to France next Saturday. “Sack Dylan Hartley as captain,” they say. “Ditch Mike Brown. Move Chris Robshaw back to blind side or drop him altogether. Bring in Ben Te’o. Start Richard Wigglesworth. Maro Itoje is off his game.” And so on.
Someone even started a poll asking whether Jones should resign. After 24 wins from 26 games? Ridiculous.
On Tuesday morning, I was asked, along with my colleagues at The Times, to select my starting XV to play France and my XV to play New Zealand in a possible 2019 World Cup semi-final.
For the France game I selected exactly the same line-up that was defeated by Scotland. I know from personal experience with England post-2003 that the moment a coach becomes reactive in his selection is the moment that the team lose their direction. That team deserve the chance to prove that Scotland was a one-off bad day.
Casting my mind further ahead to my team for the World Cup, I put down Brad Shields at blind-side flanker. If you look at the areas England will look to strengthen over the next 18 months, then Shields may well prove to be the answer.
Shields is not even playing in England yet and he does not join Wasps until next season, so will have less than one club campaign to force his way into the national set-up. But we know that Jones is keen and the big-bearded Kiwi (with English parents) would bring something to the England back row that has been missing.
Super Rugby does not always prepare players for the Aviva Premiership or the international game because of the contrasting styles. Shields, though, has the attributes to adapt and also the skill set to bring something different to the table for England. He is one of those players who seems to have boundless energy and is able to operate at high intensity; he can go through the gears quickly to create opportunities. He has a natural rugby brain and vision; he is a good distributor of the ball in the wide open channels, which makes him a fantastic link player. He reminds me of George Smith in that regard and in the explosive power and footwork that he brings as a carrier around the edge of the breakdown.
When his team do not have a lot of momentum, he has the strength to pick and go and drive them on to the front foot. Courtney Lawes is a good carrier, but in the loose. Robshaw can pick and go but he is not explosive. If England had Billy Vunipola or Nathan Hughes running off that initial drive from Shields, they would have a platform upon which to play. Shields can use his combination of power and good footwork to knock the guard defence off balance and then a quick pass to Vunipola running at full tilt against a defence rocking back on their heels and half the battle is won.
Shields is also very strong over the ball and a World Cup back row of him and Vunipola, with Sam Underhill as a defensive tackling and breakdown presence, strikes me as being ideal.
When it comes to the France game, I can see Jones making the odd tactical change: Joe Marler to scrummage against Rabah Slimani, perhaps, or a 10-12 combination of Owen Farrell and Te’o to combat the physicality of Mathieu Bastareaud.
But Jones can explain a tactical shift to the players; they may have already been expecting it. What he cannot be seen to do is to undermine the vision of where this team will be in 2019 that he has sold to the players. To make wholesale changes would do that.
Apart from anything else, Jones trotted out his usual line after the defeat that as coach it was his responsibility. To axe Brown or Hartley would make it the players’ fault.
The England cricket team in the 1990s could never get their selection strategy right, they were always chasing their tail. The same happened with the England team I played in after 2003. Andy Robinson promoted players and then dropped them after a defeat; it was always reactive and Jones has been very strong as a proactive selector.
The temptation is always there to make changes because England have the luxury of such a deep player pool and there will always be somebody outside the squad who is playing well and being championed for a call-up.
Heyneke Meyer, the former South Africa coach, once said to me when he was in charge at Leicester Tigers that he hated dropping players after a bad game. He wanted to give them a chance to put it right but also, further down the track, he felt it would have a negative impact on the player’s mindset the next time that he was picked.
England will have been through every reason why last week’s performance wasn’t acceptable but selection is about the coach showing faith in his players and in the vision that he has laid out for the team.
On the subject of Hartley, he did not have a great game in Scotland and when England are struggling the sight of the captain leaving the field early reinforces the impression that they are a team without enough leaders.
People have said that Farrell should be captain because he is on the field at the end of the game, which is a flawed argument because he takes over the captaincy then anyway. So why change something just so he can be captain from the start?
Most of an England captain’s responsibilities come before the game, in galvanising the squad, acting as a conduit between coaches and players, dealing with the media. Farrell does not need all that on top of being the chief playmaker.
England do not need to make kneejerk reactions as it would risk shunting them off course.
England don’t need to change now... but Eddie Jones should pick Brad Shields for Rugby World Cup
If you listen to the debate, bordering on hysteria, that has raged since England’s defeat by Scotland at Murrayfield, Eddie Jones needs to change up to a quarter of his team for the trip to France next weekend. “Sack Dylan Hartley as captain,” they say. “Ditch Mike Brown. Move Chris Robshaw back to
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@jauzy019 Great news for Zac and a super signing for Nevers (he's way above their level)!
He played very well for Waikato last year (his absence was immediately felt when he got injured), and has also had two excellent seasons of sevens under his belt. He thoroughly deserves a professional contract; just a pity it's only 2nd div in France, but it's better than nothing (I'm still of the opinion that NZR is pathetic in their refusal to sign him, especially because they claim to be committed to mental health). I'll be looking for illegal streams to watch him play now and then (if anyone is streaming Pro D2 games at all). He seems to be dealing with his mental health problems well now, although obviously being far away from home will be challenging for someone who needs good support around him. I wish him all the best.
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@jauzy019 Great news for Zac and a super signing for Nevers (he's way above their level)!
He played very well for Waikato last year (his absence was immediately felt when he got injured), and has also had two excellent seasons of sevens under his belt. He thoroughly deserves a professional contract; just a pity it's only 2nd div in France, but it's better than nothing (I'm still of the opinion that NZR is pathetic in their refusal to sign him, especially because they claim to be committed to mental health). I'll be looking for illegal streams to watch him play now and then (if anyone is streaming Pro D2 games at all). He seems to be dealing with his mental health problems well now, although obviously being far away from home will be challenging for someone who needs good support around him. I wish him all the best.
At the top level sport is not a charity. Do you have all the details concerning Zac and what went on? I doubt it. I have no problem with him not getting a Super contract etc.
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@billy-tell said in Exodus 2018:
@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@jauzy019 Great news for Zac and a super signing for Nevers (he's way above their level)!
He played very well for Waikato last year (his absence was immediately felt when he got injured), and has also had two excellent seasons of sevens under his belt. He thoroughly deserves a professional contract; just a pity it's only 2nd div in France, but it's better than nothing (I'm still of the opinion that NZR is pathetic in their refusal to sign him, especially because they claim to be committed to mental health). I'll be looking for illegal streams to watch him play now and then (if anyone is streaming Pro D2 games at all). He seems to be dealing with his mental health problems well now, although obviously being far away from home will be challenging for someone who needs good support around him. I wish him all the best.
At the top level sport is not a charity. Do you have all the details concerning Zac and what went on? I doubt it. I have no problem with him not getting a Super contract etc.
A shitload of chances, a shitload of dumb shit on the piss....also he's not actually very good.
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@billy-tell said in Exodus 2018:
@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@jauzy019 Great news for Zac and a super signing for Nevers (he's way above their level)!
He played very well for Waikato last year (his absence was immediately felt when he got injured), and has also had two excellent seasons of sevens under his belt. He thoroughly deserves a professional contract; just a pity it's only 2nd div in France, but it's better than nothing (I'm still of the opinion that NZR is pathetic in their refusal to sign him, especially because they claim to be committed to mental health). I'll be looking for illegal streams to watch him play now and then (if anyone is streaming Pro D2 games at all). He seems to be dealing with his mental health problems well now, although obviously being far away from home will be challenging for someone who needs good support around him. I wish him all the best.
At the top level sport is not a charity. Do you have all the details concerning Zac and what went on? I doubt it. I have no problem with him not getting a Super contract etc.
I actually do know quite a bit of the details and also about his mental health condition. I also lost a good friend due to this condition (depression, anxiety, ultimately leading to suicide), so know quite well what it's like.
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@billy-tell said in Exodus 2018:
@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@jauzy019 Great news for Zac and a super signing for Nevers (he's way above their level)!
He played very well for Waikato last year (his absence was immediately felt when he got injured), and has also had two excellent seasons of sevens under his belt. He thoroughly deserves a professional contract; just a pity it's only 2nd div in France, but it's better than nothing (I'm still of the opinion that NZR is pathetic in their refusal to sign him, especially because they claim to be committed to mental health). I'll be looking for illegal streams to watch him play now and then (if anyone is streaming Pro D2 games at all). He seems to be dealing with his mental health problems well now, although obviously being far away from home will be challenging for someone who needs good support around him. I wish him all the best.
At the top level sport is not a charity. Do you have all the details concerning Zac and what went on? I doubt it. I have no problem with him not getting a Super contract etc.
I actually do know quite a bit of the details and also about his mental health condition. I also lost a good friend due to this condition (depression, anxiety, ultimately leading to suicide), so know quite well what it's like.
I don’t know all the ins and outs but your reply doesn’t mention the word alcoholism which I thought was one of his main problems, no?
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@billy-tell Depression and anxiety very often go hand in hand with addiction(s), including alcoholism. They also make alcoholism far more difficult to treat. Guildford has publicly spoken about his mental health problems and has said he suffered from depression and anxiety, and that he had contemplated suicide. The media have only jumped on the alcohol fueled incidents because that earns them more clicks, so people think he's "just a drunk". It's, however, way more complicated than that.
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@billy-tell Depression and anxiety very often go hand in hand with addiction(s), including alcoholism. They also make alcoholism far more difficult to treat. Guildford has publicly spoken about his mental health problems and has said he suffered from depression and anxiety, and that he had contemplated suicide. The media have only jumped on the alcohol fueled incidents because that earns them more clicks, so people think he's "just a drunk". It's, however, way more complicated than that.
Not disagreeing. Still don’t see any reason why that means he should have gotten a Super Rugby contract...
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@billy-tell Depression and anxiety very often go hand in hand with addiction(s), including alcoholism. They also make alcoholism far more difficult to treat. Guildford has publicly spoken about his mental health problems and has said he suffered from depression and anxiety, and that he had contemplated suicide. The media have only jumped on the alcohol fueled incidents because that earns them more clicks, so people think he's "just a drunk". It's, however, way more complicated than that.
The media jumped on the alcohol fuelled incidents because he assaulted people, which last time I checked is a crime.
I have sympathy for him, it seems like a case of he didn't realise what he had till its gone. But anyway for all we know hes happy plying his trade in a low stress environment in the D2 here in France.
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Article from the Times UK
OWEN SLOT
march 6 2018, 12:01am, the times
Harlequins tie-up shows the All Blacks accept money trumps loyalty
owen slotRugby Writer of the Year
As Eddie Jones ponders this week such deep problems as who he is going to pick, or who is going to help fix his issues at the breakdown, or who will be fit, consider the rather different challenge faced by his opposite man in New Zealand. Steve Hansen’s problem is not so much whom to pick, but who is left to be selected.
That may sound like a somewhat contrived opening to a column trying to tweak your interest in today’s unlikely mission, which is to generate some sympathy for the world champions. However, in New Zealand they have sleepwalked rather too quickly into their present crisis, so we may as well wake up to it here too.
On Friday last week, this newspaper delivered the proof that the All Blacks had officially woken up. Our story was about Harlequins and an unprecedented agreement with New Zealand that “strategically linked” the two “both on the field and behind the scenes”.
A different story, in the Kiwi media on Sunday, was very much on the same subject: New Zealand Rugby (NZR) is to host a summit with leading stakeholders to deal with the growing threat of player drain. According to the Herald on Sunday, the options likely to be considered are tax breaks for players and, in what would be a huge policy retreat, selecting players who are at overseas clubs for the All Blacks.
The Kiwi crisis is player retention. If Lima Sopoaga, for instance, is being offered about four times his salary at home to join Wasps, then he is going to be hard to stop. If Bristol are offering Charles Piutau the opportunity to become the best-paid player in the world, then he is unlikely to gamble on earning, maybe at best, three times less by going home.
Piutau was the game-changer. Five months before the 2015 World Cup, he announced that he was to leave New Zealand the following year to join Ulster. NZR didn’t think he would go. It didn’t believe that a young man would forfeit his All Black future in this way. It responded by leaving him out of the World Cup squad. That was a warning to others. It didn’t work.
It failed so spectacularly that the argument over leaving New Zealand has now changed. Increasingly, players in their prime are leaving home to pursue once-in-a-lifetime salaries abroad. With Piutau, the debate was: how can you turn your back on a future with the All Blacks? Now it is: how can you turn your back on the kind of money that could change your — and your family’s — life. Once emotion and loyalty start to fade from the debate, the All Blacks start losing it.
The problem is that they haven’t got the finance to fight it. No, they haven’t yet had a first-choice All Black pack up and go, but that is largely because of the pay structure. The best All Blacks are paid well. With endorsements and add-ons, Beauden Barrett, for instance, will earn at best the equivalent of £750,000 a year. He could still earn more abroad but not double; not quite 50 per cent more.
Below the top players, though, there is a significant drop-off. Sopoaga, the reserve All Blacks No 10, would earn one third the amount that Barrett does, maybe less, at home. And more than him abroad. Not such a hard decision.
Of course, this is no different to the problems long faced by Australia and South Africa. It was just that the All Blacks seemed bulletproof and the loyalty defence has now been shot down. It is also a further, unequivocal demonstration of the direction of travel in the game. Rugby’s economics in the northern hemisphere are trumping those in the south. Clubs in England and France are destabilising the international game. You may love your club rugby, but do you love it that much?
Will the All Blacks’ strategic link with Harlequins now save the day? I have my hopes and my doubts.
The deal has already lurched into fast-forward. Nick Evans, the Harlequins attack coach, has already landed in Wellington for a fortnight’s learning experience with Wayne Smith and the Hurricanes. That is brilliant for Harlequins.
Yet will the All Blacks be able to control their player drain by using Harlequins as a home from home where their players can earn big for two years on the understanding that they will then return to New Zealand?
It is the market that now makes players’ decisions. If the All Blacks and Harlequins make some kind of a joint contract offer to a player and it is still being dwarfed by Toulon, for instance, then presumably Toulon still win.
You can view this through two eyes or one. The one-eyed can see All Black strength being gradually whittled away — and regard that as a cause for celebration. The broader view shows international rugby being increasingly undermined; that is what the All Blacks-Harlequins deal is about — changing direction.
For a vision of the All Blacks’ future, look at the past of the West Indies cricket team. And ask yourself if that is what you really want.
Harlequins tie-up shows the All Blacks accept money trumps loyalty
As Eddie Jones ponders this week such deep problems as who he is going to pick, or who is going to help fix his issues at the breakdown, or who will be fit, consider the rather different challenge faced by his opposite man in New Zealand. Steve Hansen’s problem is not so much whom to pick, but wh
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@infidel said in Exodus 2018:
For a vision of the All Blacks’ future, look at the past of the West Indies cricket team. And ask yourself if that is what you really want.
That's the bit that worries me. Add the fact Australia no longer gives a shit about rugby because they're terrible at SR and they only really care about beating Kiwis, and South Africa is going to hell in a hand basket - who is left to play against and generate revenue?
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@taniwharugby That would be after the RWC2019 at the earliest. I don't think anyone will be surprised if he goes after the RWC; he'll be 28 by then.
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Personally i think that would be a monumental waste of money for a French club, given the type of rugby typically played there. If he can get it though, fucking take it son.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus 2018:
Personally i think that would be a monumental waste of money for a French club, given the type of rugby typically played there. If he can get it though, fucking take it son.
If he can guide us to victory in Japan he's welcome to have at it!
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@mariner4life said in Exodus 2018:
Personally i think that would be a monumental waste of money for a French club, given the type of rugby typically played there. If he can get it though, fucking take it son.
Tell them to get fucked, Beauden.
Joe Karam took the money. Richie McCaw didn't.
It's a choice of the jersey or The Jersey!
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Damian McKenzie.
Not.
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Still no official confirmation, but it's in the media again. West is one thing, but I hate the idea of Buckman going as well.
Considering the Magpies will be playing without two of their senior backs from recent seasons, Highlander and 2017 back-of-the-year Richard Buckman and Maori All Blacks and Hurricanes first five-eighth Ihaia West, Magpies fans should be happy with a semifinal finish this season. Buckman will head to Japan and West to France after their respective Super Rugby campaigns.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503460&objectid=12014452
