Blues v Chiefs
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@pukunui said in Blues v Chiefs:
Moala should be a wing or nothing (Hell I'd prefer Collins at 13 if he is such an important communicator like we keep hearing) and Nanai needs time at 15 without the threat of getting dropped for Collins to really show what he can do.
Moala is done. Watching live tonight he looked slow. He can’t play wing anymore. He was getting half beaten on the outside constantly which made Duffie come in and make bad decisions.
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@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
I sometimes wonder how much sport some guys here have actually played or coached and understand how difficult it is to break losing streaks and how much experience in winning leadership counts when things aren't going your way.
It is easier to find ways to win when you know where to look for them.Watch that early spell in the second half and watch Messam. He stepped up big in both play and leadership for a burst and made a big difference.
Pulu is captain because he has the respect of the players but he is still to establish onfield mana. He has no one backing him up though.
It's funny to watch you make excuses for Umaga and Kirwan yet didn't you basically stop supporting the Hurricanes because of Hammett? Hammett actually got close to making the playoffs one year and he was a very average coach. It's just hard to see you ever reaching the point where you say "Umaga is doing a bad job". I don't recall exactly but I don't think you ever got there with Kirwan.
Tana is in his third season and he still has not been able to produce a team which can get over the line in a tight NZ derby. NZ derbies are half of his team's games. I'm not Tana out but he's running out of time. If he was sacked he would only have himself to blame. Huge talent pool, some of the best young New Zealand rugby players and looking like three years without playoffs. Plenty of coaches are sacked for less.
I stopped supporting the Canes because I no longer felt engaged with them. Part of that was Hammett's shit-ness but mostly it was because he alienated the supporters, changed the style of play away from the traditional Canes style (which is back now) and made me not really bothered to watch them especially as due to the NPC changes the players and team I really followed (CM) were now a proper part of the Chiefs.
My point with the Blues hasn't wavered. Replacing the coach was never going to be the fix you all want. Some of the rot in Blues rugby has been repaired and some of the replaced coaches have gone on to prove their credentials elsewhere.
At the moment the big difficulty is finding how to get that tiny bit of the puzzle in place when carrying an injury roster. You mention a huge talent pool? Who is missing that was readily available? A part of the Auckland rugby problem is that they don't breed leaders and they don't breed team players. They breed big skilled individuals that have to be taught from scratch how to fit into gameplans that don't involve 'give him the ball'. Hence the lack of decent 10s. -
firstly congratulations to the chiefs that’s a hell of an effort from a team with so many injuries..from a Blues point of view I texted a friend at halftime and said I could only see one winner and it was not the home team.
My reasoning was simple if this game was close it would come down to intellect and the work rate of the chiefs forwards.Some individuals in the squad need to have a long look themselves
George Moala for all his power with ball in hand should be sponsored by Velcro,nothing has changed in his time wether he’s playing for Auckland or the Blues.
A lack of ability to set up his outsides has been the stand out feature throughout his career and once again it was highlighted for all to see.I also sense there was a lack of trust in defence from Matt Duffie who came off his wing on more than a couple of occasions.
Patrick Tuipulotu for all his size has a very poor work rate and should have been subbed early in the second half .
I watched him defending a wide blind when the chiefs were running forwards to the right he should have been right to the fore but was nowhere to be seen.Melani Nanai should never start at Fullback he throws passes out the back door like its confetti,he’s winger in my opinion and does not have an all round game or the smarts to cover the fullback position.
Personally I would have SBW & Reiko Ioane in the midfield and push Nanai out to one wing and look at another option for the other.
Like a couple of others that have posted,some of the decision making is horrible.
I also sense some of the leaders in the Blues outfit need to have big look at themselves in the mirror that includes the coach who I believe waited far too long before making the required changes. -
@duluth said in Blues v Chiefs:
@pukunui said in Blues v Chiefs:
Moala should be a wing or nothing (Hell I'd prefer Collins at 13 if he is such an important communicator like we keep hearing) and Nanai needs time at 15 without the threat of getting dropped for Collins to really show what he can do.
Moala is done. Watching live tonight he looked slow. He can’t play wing anymore. He was getting half beaten on the outside constantly which made Duffie come in and make bad decisions.
Exactly. As a former 13 who started getting my wingers in exactly the same trouble - why I went to 12, then 6 :), I think at least one of Duffie's fuck-ups was due to that. I see Moala on the bench in my best Blues backline.
HB (no idea), Perofeta, (11) Clarke, SBW, Ioane, Nanai (14 - personally, I think it's his best position), Duffie. Bench; HB (no idea), Gatland, Moala
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@chris-b said in Blues v Chiefs:
@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
It's funny to watch you make excuses for Umaga and Kirwan yet didn't you basically stop supporting the Hurricanes because of Hammett? Hammett actually got close to making the playoffs one year and he was a very average coach.
What???!!!
Hammer recognized that sometimes you've got to deconstruct the machine, to build something better. Canes woulda had two titles if they'd hung on to him.
p.s. Start passing around the hat to hire (the Kings of) Leon. Needs a very big cheque to tempt him away from his homeland, but he's worth it.
Comedy gold, although I guess you could say going through years of pain with the Hammettuer toughened the Canes up and with an actual coach they finally won one.
@hydro11 There's a bit of a difference.
The Canes had one bad year before the Hammettuer started, previous to that they were regular semi finalists (in the Cooper years) in a competition so hard only four teams had won it.
The Blues have been shit under every coach since the current Chiefs coach was coaching the Canes to semi finals. They also, tonight aside, have had the worst cattle on paper whereas the Hammettuer took over a star studded team (and promptly dismantled it). Also, the Blues don't really have a 'huge talent pool' under the direct contracting system.But, as I said before the season started, if Tana doesn't get success this year (however it is defined by Blues fans) then fair enough, sack him, three years is enough to show improvement.
Also as @Crucial notes there was stuff going that made it unpalatable to be a Canes fan (especially if you're from a marginalised province with more of your players starring for other franchises) and the organisation lost a lot of fans (not just Crucial and I on here) during that time.
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@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
@tim said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
Nanai must start, that will make us win. - yeah, that worked
LOL, you're comparing fans on a message board to the third season coach.
He selected Pulu as captain, and he should know his error rate better than anyone.
His error rate was way less than many others out there tonight.
Your answer is sack the coac, just as your answers are to start Nanai, remove the leadership from the only leader in the team, put a rookie halfback in to pair with your rookie 10 and developing 8 etc. that's why I am questioning whether your answers are correct.
Since when is Pulu the only leader in the team? Parsons, Tupou and Kaino all have captaincy experience. One of the things that players/coaches rate highest about SBW is his leadership and Pat T has been around for long enough that he should be providing leadership in the pack.
I know your repeated mention of Nanai is probably just an anti anti Collins dig but he actually showed that he can potetially spark something from the back. Maybe he wouldn't have pushed his poor pass if he had last season to build experience rather than sitting on the bench behind a plodder.
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I would be happy with that backline later in the year. However Clarke is still pretty raw.. He needs time from the bench first. A centre pairing of TJ/SBW is worth a look
Halfback? Well we aren’t going to win many games against an aggressive rush with Pulu there. Nock is erratic and Ruru is an unknown at this level. Ummm.. go the unknown quantity??
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@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
I sometimes wonder how much sport some guys here have actually played or coached and understand how difficult it is to break losing streaks and how much experience in winning leadership counts when things aren't going your way.
It is easier to find ways to win when you know where to look for them.Watch that early spell in the second half and watch Messam. He stepped up big in both play and leadership for a burst and made a big difference.
Pulu is captain because he has the respect of the players but he is still to establish onfield mana. He has no one backing him up though.
It's funny to watch you make excuses for Umaga and Kirwan yet didn't you basically stop supporting the Hurricanes because of Hammett? Hammett actually got close to making the playoffs one year and he was a very average coach. It's just hard to see you ever reaching the point where you say "Umaga is doing a bad job". I don't recall exactly but I don't think you ever got there with Kirwan.
Tana is in his third season and he still has not been able to produce a team which can get over the line in a tight NZ derby. NZ derbies are half of his team's games. I'm not Tana out but he's running out of time. If he was sacked he would only have himself to blame. Huge talent pool, some of the best young New Zealand rugby players and looking like three years without playoffs. Plenty of coaches are sacked for less.
I stopped supporting the Canes because I no longer felt engaged with them. Part of that was Hammett's shit-ness but mostly it was because he alienated the supporters, changed the style of play away from the traditional Canes style (which is back now) and made me not really bothered to watch them especially as due to the NPC changes the players and team I really followed (CM) were now a proper part of the Chiefs.
My point with the Blues hasn't wavered. Replacing the coach was never going to be the fix you all want. Some of the rot in Blues rugby has been repaired and some of the replaced coaches have gone on to prove their credentials elsewhere.
At the moment the big difficulty is finding how to get that tiny bit of the puzzle in place when carrying an injury roster. You mention a huge talent pool? Who is missing that was readily available? A part of the Auckland rugby problem is that they don't breed leaders and they don't breed team players. They breed big skilled individuals that have to be taught from scratch how to fit into gameplans that don't involve 'give him the ball'. Hence the lack of decent 10s.nail on head with auckland rugby problem - if you ever have a chance talk to foxy about it - plenty of people are working on the issue - which is basically the school comp in Auckland - the teams buy in tthe biggest fastest blokes they can find to run over the top of people.. and it works in school footy.
go to next level when everyones the same size etc and you get a bunch of individuals who don't know any better no idea about creating space etc etc.. sound like a team you know?
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@chris-b said in Blues v Chiefs:
M"tH"H - undefeated in 2018!!!
The Hammettuer is the assistant, he's riding on Mauger's coat tails. You have to give the Highlanders credit, they had an opportunity to promote from in but instead went for an ex turnstile back who has never coached in NZ over him.
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@williethewaiter Also, it's not like Auckland school teams completely dominate the top 4 so it's not even certain that going for size is the way to go.
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@nepia said in Blues v Chiefs:
@williethewaiter Also, it's not like Auckland school teams completely dominate the top 4 so it's not even certain that going for size is the way to go.
yep but thats the mentality right - how's that gonna change!!
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It could be the best short-term solution, but the problem I have with that is SBW looks about as fast as Moala and has less experience making defensive decisions out there. I think he is the one who should be the constant selection - at 12.
Another option is getting the younger player to 13, but I don’t know Faiane at all and I don’t even remember him handling the ball tonight.
If he’s fit, I’d get Clarke out there pronto, so at least Tana is getting the young ones experience. I didn’t think that Rieko was ready...
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@nepia said in Blues v Chiefs:
@chris-b said in Blues v Chiefs:
@hydro11 said in Blues v Chiefs:
@crucial said in Blues v Chiefs:
It's funny to watch you make excuses for Umaga and Kirwan yet didn't you basically stop supporting the Hurricanes because of Hammett? Hammett actually got close to making the playoffs one year and he was a very average coach.
What???!!!
Hammer recognized that sometimes you've got to deconstruct the machine, to build something better. Canes woulda had two titles if they'd hung on to him.
p.s. Start passing around the hat to hire (the Kings of) Leon. Needs a very big cheque to tempt him away from his homeland, but he's worth it.
Comedy gold, although I guess you could say going through years of pain with the Hammettuer toughened the Canes up and with an actual coach they finally won one.
@hydro11 There's a bit of a difference.
The Canes had one bad year before the Hammettuer started, previous to that they were regular semi finalists (in the Cooper years) in a competition so hard only four teams had won it.
The Blues have been shit under every coach since the current Chiefs coach was coaching the Canes to semi finals. They also, tonight aside, have had the worst cattle on paper whereas the Hammettuer took over a star studded team (and promptly dismantled it). Also, the Blues don't really have a 'huge talent pool' under the direct contracting system.But, as I said before the season started, if Tana doesn't get success this year (however it is defined by Blues fans) then fair enough, sack him, three years is enough to show improvement.
Also as @Crucial notes there was stuff going that made it unpalatable to be a Canes fan (especially if you're from a marginalised province with more of your players starring for other franchises) and the organisation lost a lot of fans (not just Crucial and I on here) during that time.
If you look at the star studded players that Hammett got rid of, most of them were over the hill or getting that way. Nonu had a good 2012 IIRC but was terrible in 2013 and 2014. Hore did nothing since leaving the Hurricanes, ditto Weepu.
My point is just that if Hammett deserved to be sacked, then Tana has to be going the same way. You can make similar criticisms about Wellington rugby that you can about Auckland rugby. All razzle dazzle and not enough nous.
