Black Caps vs Pakistan Series
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@shark Don't think Henry is part of the T20 equation - he struggles to bowl at the death in ODIs because consistent line and length is predictable and eminently sloggable.
I think Santner's got more to offer with the bat than he's shown so far. It's a bit of a thankless task batting at 7/8 in a T20 because you're often going to come in and have to face about five balls and swing away. You can do a good job by scoring 12 runs, but no-one's going to remember it.
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Keeping our powder dry for the Aussie and Poms aye....
A few concerning aspects with selections and execution of a game plan. We looked a little lost out there which is surprising given over the last couple of years we have played pretty assured.
Looking forward to the upcoming series.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@shark said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
Moving forward, Kane shouldn't be there. Rest him from the T20 squad and let him focus on his two better formats. Taylor should bat at 3 seeing as they're now happy with him and he's hardly going to burn out playing a handful of T20s in the twilight of his career so let the guy play. Bruce appears to have a future and maybe they should play Nicholls and give him the gloves. That's the top 5 sorted including a keeper and a bowling option in Munro. CDGH is a lock and Anderson also comes in to create a potentially devastating middle order. I don't think Santner has the batting to be at 8 in this format and I want another hitter there so I'd pick Wheeler but he'd need to take the new ball also and do a job as he's followed by - in no particular order -
Santner, Sodhi and one strike bowler in Boult, Southee or Henry. At a pinch you could bat Henry at 8 as he's able to hit a long ball, and play Boult or Southee as well. I think an XI along those lines is well balanced and bats really deep with plenty of bowling.Since when is Taylor in the twilight of his career?
He's 34 in March. Since when is that not the twilight period of a NZ batsman's career??
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@shark Don't think Henry is part of the T20 equation - he struggles to bowl at the death in ODIs because consistent line and length is predictable and eminently sloggable.
I think Santner's got more to offer with the bat than he's shown so far. It's a bit of a thankless task batting at 7/8 in a T20 because you're often going to come in and have to face about five balls and swing away. You can do a good job by scoring 12 runs, but no-one's going to remember it.
You make a good point re Henry. But I still like his strike at the top of the innings.
You won't away me on Santner though. He's a really, really good ODI player because both his skillsets suit the pace of that format but in T20 his batting is no good and in tests his bowling is almost purely about containment.
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@shark said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@shark said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
Moving forward, Kane shouldn't be there. Rest him from the T20 squad and let him focus on his two better formats. Taylor should bat at 3 seeing as they're now happy with him and he's hardly going to burn out playing a handful of T20s in the twilight of his career so let the guy play. Bruce appears to have a future and maybe they should play Nicholls and give him the gloves. That's the top 5 sorted including a keeper and a bowling option in Munro. CDGH is a lock and Anderson also comes in to create a potentially devastating middle order. I don't think Santner has the batting to be at 8 in this format and I want another hitter there so I'd pick Wheeler but he'd need to take the new ball also and do a job as he's followed by - in no particular order -
Santner, Sodhi and one strike bowler in Boult, Southee or Henry. At a pinch you could bat Henry at 8 as he's able to hit a long ball, and play Boult or Southee as well. I think an XI along those lines is well balanced and bats really deep with plenty of bowling.Since when is Taylor in the twilight of his career?
He's 34 in March. Since when is that not the twilight period of a NZ batsman's career??
Not sure how him being a 'NZ' batsman is relevant? Loads of international players have retired quite a bit older than he is currently and it's not like he plays heaps compared to others. ( not his fault of course )
The BCs have just picked someone to debut at virtually the same age. Taylor could do another 4-5 years if he wanted to. Let's not forget he has a few goals that are in reach ( 50 plus test average, 20 test hundies, most test runs for BC etc )
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@shark said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
You won't away me on Santner though. He's a really, really good ODI player because both his skillsets suit the pace of that format but in T20 his batting is no good and in tests his bowling is almost purely about containment.
In T20, if we're going to win, Santner should never have to do much more than make a small cameo with the bat.
In tests, I heard Jeremy Coney making an interesting assessment of our spinners. He said the guy we should pick should be the guy who is most capable of spinning us to victory on a Day 5 pitch.
His assessment was that that man is Todd Astle!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@shark said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
You won't away me on Santner though. He's a really, really good ODI player because both his skillsets suit the pace of that format but in T20 his batting is no good and in tests his bowling is almost purely about containment.
In T20, if we're going to win, Santner should never have to do much more than make a small cameo with the bat.
In tests, I heard Jeremy Coney making an interesting assessment of our spinners. He said the guy we should pick should be the guy who is most capable of spinning us to victory on a Day 5 pitch.
His assessment was that that man is Todd Astle!
How many 'day 5 pitches' are there in cricket these days? I think (the usually astute) Coney is thinking of the old days.
Unless you have a player that can bamboozle with spin you are best to select the most accurate guy that is going to hold an end while you rotate through the quicks. If the have the ability to tie a batsman up with perfect line and length then better still.
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@crucial Not that many in NZ it seems - but, plenty in the subcontinent, Sharjah and some in the Windies.
If there's really no prospect of wickets for the spinner - wouldn't we be better off just playing another seamer - e.g we could play Boult, Southee, Wagner, Ferguson and de Grandhomme who could sustain a pretty large workload.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@crucial Not that many in NZ it seems - but, plenty in the subcontinent, Sharjah and some in the Windies.
If there's really no prospect of wickets for the spinner - wouldn't we be better off just playing another seamer - e.g we could play Boult, Southee, Wagner, Ferguson and de Grandhomme who could sustain a pretty large workload.
I think we should be looking at Ferguson. Point of difference to the other seamers and has a very good first class record. I feel we are underplaying him at the moment.
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@crucial said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@shark said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
You won't away me on Santner though. He's a really, really good ODI player because both his skillsets suit the pace of that format but in T20 his batting is no good and in tests his bowling is almost purely about containment.
In T20, if we're going to win, Santner should never have to do much more than make a small cameo with the bat.
In tests, I heard Jeremy Coney making an interesting assessment of our spinners. He said the guy we should pick should be the guy who is most capable of spinning us to victory on a Day 5 pitch.
His assessment was that that man is Todd Astle!
How many 'day 5 pitches' are there in cricket these days? I think (the usually astute) Coney is thinking of the old days.
Unless you have a player that can bamboozle with spin you are best to select the most accurate guy that is going to hold an end while you rotate through the quicks. If the have the ability to tie a batsman up with perfect line and length then better still.
'Bamboozle with spin....'
We're talking about the Black Caps right?
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@chris-b said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@crucial Not that many in NZ it seems - but, plenty in the subcontinent, Sharjah and some in the Windies.
If there's really no prospect of wickets for the spinner - wouldn't we be better off just playing another seamer - e.g we could play Boult, Southee, Wagner, Ferguson and de Grandhomme who could sustain a pretty large workload.
At the cost of Captain Kane being suspended every second match for slow over rates, ....... like Jason Holder.
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Anyway. Who says Santner isn't, or won't, be effective on a 5th day pitch? I've seen Santner rip it big on pitches that turn.
Anyway. Not a 5th day pitch statistical analysis. But as imperfectly close I can get.
NZ's most effective 4th innings bowlers (of any type) this decade:
The world's most effective 4th innings spinners this decade (with a minimum qualification to make sure Mitch is included ....):
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@rapido yr first query shows Vettori's "span ending in 2012 but he bowled in 2014 against Pakistan in UAE. Is it filtered for home tests only? Query suggests no.
Probably in that game NZ didn't bowl in the 4th innings of the match.
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps vs Pakistan Series:
@rapido yup yr right - I had done a lazy check and seen Paki's batted last but overlooked the innings victory. Rookie mistake - given myself a taking to.
if you tweak the query for 3rd and 4th innings, you get this:
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NZ's all time spin bowling record in the 4th innings, shows me two things:
- Santner has been the best.
- You don't pick a spin bowler purely to bowl on the last day (at the expense of the rest of his job), as it likely very rarely happens.
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Santner demonstrating a few of the problems with small samples. His best bowling figures in the 4th innings are 2/13 and that was his most recent match against the Windies where he captured Roach and Cummins. I reckon, in terms of bowling NZ to victory in the 4th innings, Mark Craig has been significantly more successful.
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Coney is an idiot!
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