Black Caps vs Windies Series
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@mimic said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@mimic tough on Henry, most of his tests have been vs England away, vs Australia away and vs India away. I'd hazard a guess that most NZ bowlers have poor records against those countries away from home.
CDGH's record is ALL at home, vs Pakistan, Bangladesh and South Africa.
I'd discard both players stats from that analysis.
Henry's record at home is even worse.
Average of 59.00, strike rate of 125.0, although his economy rate is better at 2.83Now your sample size is even more meaningless. Henry is only 25, has a decent first class record and plenty of time to develop into a very handy bowler. Well worth perservering with.
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Grrr Latham gone going for the big hook shot. Needed to put those risky scoring shots away for the night.
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@no-quarter no, just hit it harder!
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Kane gets himself out and it's game on.
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@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@mimic said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@mimic tough on Henry, most of his tests have been vs England away, vs Australia away and vs India away. I'd hazard a guess that most NZ bowlers have poor records against those countries away from home.
CDGH's record is ALL at home, vs Pakistan, Bangladesh and South Africa.
I'd discard both players stats from that analysis.
Henry's record at home is even worse.
Average of 59.00, strike rate of 125.0, although his economy rate is better at 2.83Now your sample size is even more meaningless. Henry is only 25, has a decent first class record and plenty of time to develop into a very handy bowler. Well worth perservering with.
Yep, but I notice a lot of shade thrown CdG's way, when Henry is lucky to be there. Lockie Ferguson is 26, and I believe he deserves the spot ahead of Henry.
But if sample size is something you want to look at, then I'll look at the first class records.First Class Average
Lockie 24.04
Henry 28.87
CdG 29.34First Class SR
Lockie 43.3
Henry 55.0
CdG 62.8First Class Econ
CdG 2.80
Henry 3.14
Lockie 3.32One thing in CdG's favour is that he has has a better batting record in first class cricket.
First Class batting average
CdG 35.37
Henry 22.23
Lockie 16.19People need to keep in mind the CdG is there as a bowling all-rounder and the 4th seamer, and his bowling record is comparable to Henry who is a specialist bowler.
CdG is purely there because Corey and Jimmy are always injured, and they're more batting all-rounders who are rubbish with the ball.
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
god this is boring
These youngsters that have grown up on a diet on shits and giggles T20 cricket have no appreciation for the purest form of the game. These two are doing a job and doing it well.
I'm only liking this cos of Star Wars.
He doesn't like you.
I don't like you either.
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@mimic you won't hear any arguments from me re: Lockie. This game was a perfect opportunity to give him a go, and IMO he should be there ahead of CdG who is 31 and certainly not a long term answer. I'm not a fan of picking all-rounders that are not and never will be good enough at either discipline. In ODIs and T20s it can work as 20 - 30 handy runs or a couple of wickets can make a difference, but in tests if you don't have an all-rounder good enough then you should go with the more traditional balance. Plus we already have Santner to fill that role!
I like CdG but he shouldn't be in the test side, especially against the Windies at home when we have talented youngsters in the wings.
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@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@mimic you won't hear any arguments from me re: Lockie. This game was a perfect opportunity to give him a go, and IMO he should be there ahead of CdG who is 31 and certainly not a long term answer. I'm not a fan of picking all-rounders that are not and never will be good enough at either discipline. In ODIs and T20s it can work as 20 - 30 handy runs or a couple of wickets can make a difference, but in tests if you don't have an all-rounder good enough then you should go with the more traditional balance. Plus we already have Santner to fill that role!
I like CdG but he shouldn't be in the test side, especially against the Windies at home when we have talented youngsters in the wings.
The problem is if you pick Lockie at 8, you have Blundell on debut at 7 and Santner at 6 who averages about 25 with the bat.
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I also don't think Corey or Neesh should be in the test side unless they prove themselves capable in at least one of the disciplines (for them batting). I think we get too caught up in wanting a bunch of all-rounders in the team to try and lengthen our batting lineup because we don't trust the top order.
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@hydro11 said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@mimic you won't hear any arguments from me re: Lockie. This game was a perfect opportunity to give him a go, and IMO he should be there ahead of CdG who is 31 and certainly not a long term answer. I'm not a fan of picking all-rounders that are not and never will be good enough at either discipline. In ODIs and T20s it can work as 20 - 30 handy runs or a couple of wickets can make a difference, but in tests if you don't have an all-rounder good enough then you should go with the more traditional balance. Plus we already have Santner to fill that role!
I like CdG but he shouldn't be in the test side, especially against the Windies at home when we have talented youngsters in the wings.
The problem is if you pick Lockie at 8, you have Blundell on debut at 7 and Santner at 6 who averages about 25 with the bat.
If Santner is not good enough at 6 then he should bat at 8. If he's not good enough to be one of the four frontline bowlers then I question his place in the test team.
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If you look at the Aus team they have the balance right. 6 frontline batsmen, a keeper and 4 frontline bowlers.
NZ has 5 frontline batsmen, a keeper, 3 frontline bowlers and 2 guys not really good enough at either. Can work in the shorter forms but doesn't for tests. It means guys like CdG bowl first change and guys like Santner are at the crease when we are only four down.
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@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
If you look at the Aus team they have the balance right. 6 frontline batsmen, a keeper and 4 frontline bowlers.
NZ has 5 frontline batsmen, a keeper, 3 frontline bowlers and 2 guys not really good enough at either. Can work in the shorter forms but doesn't for tests. It means guys like CdG bowl first change and guys like Santner are at the crease when we are only four down.
That works for Aus because those 4 frontline bowlers are really fucking good, so don't have to have the opposition in for ages and ages. Aus don't really have anyone at the moment that can give them a spell.
But i pretty much agree with you that we should be looking at that type of lineup. We have always loved bits and pieces players though.
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I guess the question for us is, if you are going to pick six batsmen then who are they? It's not clear to me that Neesham, Anderson and De Grandhomme are that much worse than Neil Broom or Dean Brownlie. Aussies have sort of been forced into their current arrangement because Mitchell Marsh was so terrible.
I don't Ben Stokes or Moeen Ali are good enough to bat in the top six if they didn't bowl. I also don't think their bowling would be good enough if they didn't bat. They are probably just close enough in both aspects that it makes sense for England to pick both of them.
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@hydro11 said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
I guess the question for us is, if you are going to pick six batsmen then who are they? It's not clear to me that Neesham, Anderson and De Grandhomme are that much worse than Neil Broom or Dean Brownlie.
Tom Bruce (42.02), Bharat Popli (39.17), and Will Young (38.64) have been names thrown out there. They all have a better first class average than Nicholls (36.02, - test ave of 31.94), who is our current #5.
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@mimic said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
@hydro11 said in Black Caps vs Windies 1st Test:
I guess the question for us is, if you are going to pick six batsmen then who are they? It's not clear to me that Neesham, Anderson and De Grandhomme are that much worse than Neil Broom or Dean Brownlie.
Tom Bruce (42.02), Bharat Popli (39.17), and Will Young (38.64) have been names thrown out there. They all have a better first class average than Nicholls (36.02, - test ave of 31.94), who is our current #5.
Those stats would get them into the English team
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I have only seen Bruce bat once so a very small sample size, but I can confidently say, unfortunately, that he didn't appear to have the footwork to be a decent test batsman. He reminded me of Spearman.
