Socialism!
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Any "system" guided by one ideology like socialism or capitalism is going to be stuffed up, isn't it? All developed nations have a complex form of many things that are can have aspects of socialist/capital etc systems . Too simplistic I know but the military for example is clearly govt. controlled and funded and so definiely very socialist-like. Retail businesses are definitely very capitalist-like.
My own personal opinion is we need socialist aspects to our health and education systems in order to create a fair society. -
@Samurai-Jack said in Socialism!:
Any "system" guided by one ideology like socialism or capitalism is going to be stuffed up, isn't it? All developed nations have a complex form of many things that are can have aspects of socialist/capital etc systems . Too simplistic I know but the military for example is clearly govt. controlled and funded and so definiely very socialist-like. Retail businesses are definitely very capitalist-like.
My own personal opinion is we need socialist aspects to our health and education systems in order to create a fair society.Agree. The areas of contention are things that some people think are public necessities and others think are commodities eg power, water
I always find it funny that people the decry all forms of socialism as stupid are happy to drive around on roads that are funded from various user pools and public borrowings. A fully privatised roading system would be chaos and virtually unusable.
On the other hand those that decry capitalism benefit hugely from the advances made that would happen without such systems.
It's all about balance.
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@Crucial said in Socialism!:
@Samurai-Jack said in Socialism!:
Any "system" guided by one ideology like socialism or capitalism is going to be stuffed up, isn't it? All developed nations have a complex form of many things that are can have aspects of socialist/capital etc systems . Too simplistic I know but the military for example is clearly govt. controlled and funded and so definiely very socialist-like. Retail businesses are definitely very capitalist-like.
My own personal opinion is we need socialist aspects to our health and education systems in order to create a fair society.Agree. The areas of contention are things that some people think are public necessities and others think are commodities eg power, water
I always find it funny that people the decry all forms of socialism as stupid are happy to drive around on roads that are funded from various user pools and public borrowings. A fully privatised roading system would be chaos and virtually unusable.
On the other hand those that decry capitalism benefit hugely from the advances made that would happen without such systems.
It's all about balance.
Government funded roads are not examples of Socialism though. Socialism is a system whereby the workers control the means of production. This is not what happens with roads, hospitals or the military.
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@hydro11 Not an expert by any means so really shouldn't really comment cos could get into trouble but that is a bit simplistic, isn't it?
Straight from wiki:
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production,[10] as well as the political theories, and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective, or cooperative ownership, or to citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[13] Social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]
I thoughtSocialismCommunism is a system whereby the workers control the means of production. Straight from "Sociology 101Unit 3 Karl Marx" -
Hydro is correct. The roads example was silly. Since when does capatalism not believe in govt?
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@Tregaskis A little ironic given her father's work relied on those roads. The very work that permitted her to have an upper middle-class upbringing. The very type who can afford to crap on about socialism. Much easier with a safety net provisioned by the labours of others.
I guess poor people just use footpaths and bicycle lanes...
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@Godder said in Socialism!:
@jegga said in Socialism!:
If people disagree wth socialism the best thing to do is kill them apparently
Somehow, I can't see New Zealand ever devolving to Venezuela...
Never said we would? Well maybe under a greens led government. You would probably be composted too.
Red Ken used to be one of the more prominent figures in labour until that nasty strain of anti Semitism reared its head last year following Corbyns election to the head of the politburo. Now he seems to feel free to say what he really thinks which is actually quite horrifying but not all that surprising.
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So a mate of mine out of curiosity managed to sneak along to an aussie socialists meeting (he's foreign so forgive some of the english):
Trigger warning: Alt-Left
Sneaked into the Alt-Left's headquarter in Melbourne
They are Trotskyists and are responsible for the gang AntiFa (which, according to them, has already been dissolved)
They call themselves radicals. Very honest
Found hundreds of freshly-printed propaganda posters in their headquarter
They want a global revolution
They are against almost everything including Bernie Sanders
Compared Trump to Hitler and KKK
Said Tony Abbott and Cory Bernardi are evils, thus they should be fucked
Said capitalism and the west is total shit, bullying and oppressing people
Said there is NO real democracy in the west
Said the USSR and the PRC are not real socialism at all, and are all irrelevant to them
They don't want to get into the Parliament because they want to get rid of the Parliament
Beautiful girls and handsome boys though. Many are university students, and many are hardcore unionists
At the end of the gathering they asked for donation
Very very few participants donated. Are they too poor to donate?
Donated $1 for safety
Feels like George Soros -
@Rembrandt said in Socialism!:
So a mate of mine out of curiosity managed to sneak along to an aussie socialists meeting (he's foreign so forgive some of the english):
Trigger warning: Alt-Left
Sneaked into the Alt-Left's headquarter in Melbourne
They are Trotskyists and are responsible for the gang AntiFa (which, according to them, has already been dissolved)
They call themselves radicals. Very honest
Found hundreds of freshly-printed propaganda posters in their headquarter
They want a global revolution
They are against almost everything including Bernie Sanders
Compared Trump to Hitler and KKK
Said Tony Abbott and Cory Bernardi are evils, thus they should be fucked
Said capitalism and the west is total shit, bullying and oppressing people
Said there is NO real democracy in the west
Said the USSR and the PRC are not real socialism at all, and are all irrelevant to them
They don't want to get into the Parliament because they want to get rid of the Parliament
Beautiful girls and handsome boys though. Many are university students, and many are hardcore unionists
At the end of the gathering they asked for donation
Very very few participants donated. Are they too poor to donate?
Donated $1 for safety
Feels like George SorosThing that disturbs me the most is that there were beautiful girls. You can understand the mingers.
What I always find hilarious is that the USSR, China, Laos, Venezuela etc etc isn't real Socialism, they just got it wrong. So what will these genuises do differently and how will they treat those who question them. They're not exactly known for their tolerance of other views.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Ha yes that's a worry, unless that was lost in translation..at the same time though it encourages me to try and infiltrate myself and see what the story is. If a pretty girl really wants to be a rebel in Melbourne there is nothing more rebellious than being a conservative. Socialist attitudes here are just assumed.
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The road to Wigan pier is about $3 to read on Kindle it's well worth reading to get an insight into the mind of a leftard and an understanding of their feelings towards the people they claim to be helping but in reality have no fucks to give for them at all. Orwell has socialism Sussed a long time ago and it's quite weird to see such a thoroughly discredited thing rear its ugly head again .
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This quote is gold:
The difference between Nazis and Communists is that when you mention the horrors of Naziism no one ever says "Yeah, but true Naziism has never really been tried.
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My personal theory is that it's taken a long time for human's to figure out the best way to organise society, and evidence shows that a democratic capitalist society that upholds western values of individual freedom is by far the best we've ever had - by a country mile.
We tested the Marxist and Socialist theories in the 20th century and have 100 million corpses to show for it - that's more than enough for me, and I look at anyone pushing the idea of equality/equity as either morally broken, or unbelievably naive as a quick glance at history gives you all the answers you need.
These young idiots in Antifa want to overthrow something they don't have even the most basic understanding of, and replace it with something that has a proven track record of leading to a brutal dictatorship. It's incredible that they think they are a moral authority when they haven't achieved a single thing with their own lives. Here's a tip to any young idiot who sympathises with Antifa - instead of attacking people you disagree with, how about spending the next 20 years of your life sorting yourself out, and becoming the best human being you can be. Just imagine how good things would be if everyone did that. Then maybe you will have acquired the wisdom to influence other people in a positive way. But until then, STFU.
The fact that left-wing outlets like CNN are actually fluffing Antifa beggars belief, it really does. Nobody, left or right, should have any time for a group that uses violence and intimidation to push their ideology, no matter how morally superior they think their "stated goals" are.
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So I've been given the meeting schedule of the Antifa and antifa equivalents in Melbourne. Since I clearly have a perverse interest in groups that I have huge ideological differences with I think I will head along and try and get some understanding of their point of view.
Anyone got any question suggestions?, keeping in mind of course that my goal isn't to get roughed up.