Scotland is Rugby's biggest poacher - study.
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I am just relieved NZ is a 'giver' and not a 'taker'.
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Scotland, Ireland and England have all mined their diaspora, some more than others of course. Not sure how studies like this really tell the whole picture.
To have a bit more meaning they probably need to look at how a player has qualified for a country. Residency or ancestry.
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Was discussing this elsewhere yesterday and looked at the 44 foreign born England players he references by country, 1996 to present day. As a fairly crude measure, the ones in bold came over on or after the age of 18 (to the best of my knowledge), in most cases to play pro rugby. Some of them (Te'o, most of the Saffers) will also qualify through family
Germany (Paul Hill, Matt Kvesic, Tom Johnson, Lee Dickson, Phil Christophers)
Hong Kong (Charlie Sharples)
Australia (Jack Clifford, Joe Simpson, David Paice, Billy Vunipola)
Nigeria (Adedayo Adebayo, Ayoola Erinle)
Kenya (Simon Shaw)
UAE (Nick Greenstock)
Canada (Kevin Yates))
Wales (Dorian West)
South Africa (Steve White-Cooper, Fraser Waters, Michael Horak, Stuart Abbott, Matt Stevens, Hendre Fourie, Mouritz Botha, Brad Barritt)
New Zealand (Henry Paul, Mark van Gisbergen, Perry Freshwater, Riki Flutey, Shontayne Hape, Thomas Waldrom, Teimana Harrison, Ben Te'o, Mako Vunipola, Dylan Hartley)
Scotland (Geoff Appleford)
Tonga (Lesley Vainikolo)
Wales (Jason Hobson)
St Lucia (Delon Armitage, Steffon Armitage, Marland Yarde)
USA (Alex Corbisiero)
Samoa (Manu Tuilagi)
Fiji (Semesa Rokoduguni, Nathan Hughes)Basically most of our proper poaching is from NZ or SA
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Nah, If he's in the country, he's fine with me. They're my rules....
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Using the method above. Since 1996, those born overseas who played for NZ (but moved at 18 or over).
Is quite small by my count. Just 5
Ieremia
Vidiri
Devine
Rawlinson
TaumoepeauPlus scholarship boys who moved before 18, but who's IRB eligibility didn't start ticking over until over 18 (which same rules would also have applied to Hartley and Tuilagi if anyone cared enough to check).
Another 7:
Laulala C
Sivivatu
Anesi
Laulala N
Fekitoa
Tamanivalu
Halai -
@rotated said in Scotland is Rugby's biggest poacher - study.:
Tough to say Scotland is 'poaching' from England given they aren't sovereign countries and have no significant geographic or economic boundaries.
This. Flawed study IMHO.
For example, a number of the Welsh 'overseas' players 'poached' from England had played age grade rugby for Wales. Some were even sons of former Welsh internationals.
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Not necessarily flawed data wise (for the most part), but certainly an unnecessary use of the direct link to poaching when the data purely looks at birthplace.
England, for example, can hardly be accused of poaching the cream of Germany rugby. They were just forces kids.
It's interesting all the same.
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Birthplace throws up strange ones like Brad Thorn. Yes he was born in NZ - but the NZ rugby development system had less to do with developing him into a professional rugby player than any AB in the past 20 years.
His case made even more dubious by the fact the represented Australia in league before and during his AB career and settled back in Australia as soon as his AB stint was over (sans Highlanders stint).
At least in the case all those other guys they played in college/development/club system for a number of years before playing professionally - and almost all settled in NZ or maintain strong ties there.
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@Margin_Walker said in Scotland is Rugby's biggest poacher - study.:
Not necessarily flawed data wise (for the most part), but certainly an unnecessary use of the direct link to poaching when the data purely looks at birthplace.
Hmmm ...
Pretty much what we've been saying for 20 years. You've got to comsider context and all factors.
