Crusaders v Blues
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@muddyriver Christ. What the hell happened?
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@Tim said in Crusaders v Blues:
@hydro11 Are you kidding me? They are one from four. They have not made the playoffs since 2011. Their last five seasons have been 12th, 10th, 10th, 14th, and 11th. They have the richest and largest player pool in the best rugby country in the history of the world. They have gone from dominance to nothing since Henry left 14 years ago. The case for incompetence could not be clearer!
This is yet another completely bogus argument from you.
They are the 8th best team out of 18 in 2016 and you are saying they are incompetent. Of the 7 teams better than them, 4 of them were New Zealand teams. I think the NZRU should have been more concerned over all those seasons when the Highlanders were terrible.
The player pool is irrelevant. Many players from Auckland are doing very well playing for other teams. Fantastic players are still coming out of the region - the Blues just can't turn those players into a championship winning team.
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@hydro11 They were 11th (despite what your reddit detectives say) and bottom of the NZ conference. Again and again, and again. They have uniquely underperformed among NZ teams. I have established that clearly. To ignore that means that you cannot argue in good faith. I will repeat - 12th, 10th, 10th, 14th, and 11th.
Player pools are not irrelevant. If they are irrelevant - the early access, the opportunity to evaluate and coach - then what is relevant?
You have just said "Fantastic players are still coming out of the region - the Blues just can't turn those players into a championship winning team." What could be a clearer indicator of an underperforming organisation.
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@Tim said in Crusaders v Blues:
@hydro11 They finished 11th on points, and bottom of the NZ competition. I have established their incompetence.
You haven't addressed what I was saying at all. The only reason they finished 11th is because they have a tough draw and lost to other New Zealand teams. Besides, even 11 out of 18 isn't that bad. The NZRU isn't concerned because one franchise loses to other New Zealand franchises. The NZRU doesn't care which New Zealand team wins a derby because they have to be impartial. They care that we beat the foreign teams.
I also don't know where you get the idea that money is the Blues problem. They have far more All Blacks in their squad than the Highlanders. Luatua hasn't always shone at Super Rugby and Piutau wouldn't have made much difference tonight.
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@hydro11 Are you fucking kidding me? Luatua was brilliant last season for us. Piutau would've been devistating from the back tonight. He wouldn't have made a difference vs. Collins against that Crusaders backline. Do you read your own posts? Come on dude ...
I suppose that it's no loss that Faumaina is going as well.
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@Tim said in Crusaders v Blues:
@hydro11 They were 11th (despite what your reddit detectives say) and bottom of the NZ conference. Again and again, and again. They have uniquely underperformed among NZ teams. I have established that clearly. To ignore that means that you cannot argue in good faith. I will repeat - 12th, 10th, 10th, 14th, and 11th.
Player pools are not irrelevant. If they are irrelevant - the early access, the opportunity to evaluate and coach - then what is relevant?
You have just said "Fantastic players are still coming out of the region - the Blues just can't turn those players into a championship winning team." What could be a clearer indicator of an underperforming organisation.
Sure the Blues are underperforming. I don't know how giving them more resources than everyone else would encourage them to actually make use of what they have. You are saying the Blues should get more money to spend on players because they are underperforming.
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@Tim said in Crusaders v Blues:
@hydro11 Are you fucking kidding me? Luatua was brilliant last season for us. Piutau would've been devistating from the back tonight. He wouldn't have made a difference vs. Collins against that Crusaders backline. Do you read your own posts? Come on dude ...
I suppose that it's no loss that Faumaina is going as well.
Every team loses players overseas.
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Never in doubt fullas.
Gotta say that Romano has been the real surprise package so far this season. Every game he has come off the bench and had a real positive impact to pull off these wins.
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Blues lost that game for one reason only. Nothing to do with resources or not being organised generally or not having the right talent.
They simply weren't well versed enough in negating mauls.
Once the Saders sniffed out the weakness it was all over.
In every other aspect of the game the Blues were either better or the equal of the Saders.I guess the only other aspect was that they should have recognised what the Saders were doing to play for mauls and tried to do everything they could to negate that.
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@Crucial Blues have been pretty piss poor in this regard for a while.
The Highlanders had a bit of a similar issue at the end of their game v Crusaders - it was as obvious as night follows day what the Crusaders were trying to do in both games - credit to Crusaders for being awesome at it but both Blues and Highlanders were poor at not recognising that and playing to avoid penalties.
I was thinking during the game you can see why the Chiefs have had such success vs Crusaders - they play like the Blues played tonight except up front they dont get bossed around.
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@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Blues:
@Crucial Blues have been pretty piss poor in this regard for a while.
The Highlanders had a bit of a similar issue at the end of their game v Crusaders - it was as obvious as night follows day what the Crusaders were trying to do in both games - credit to Crusaders for being awesome at it but both Blues and Highlanders were poor at not recognising that and playing to avoid penalties.
I was thinking during the game you can see why the Chiefs have had such success vs Crusaders - they play like the Blues played tonight except up front they dont get bossed around.
Crusaders were being cunning as well. As Kaino complained about they were jumping onto the defenders and milking penalties to the point where Blues could do nothing without getting carded.
Chiefs probably have one of the better maul defences going at the moment but they also went through a long period of trying to work it out and avoid too many penalties.fuck, I hate mauls (or rather the imbalance still in favour of the attacking team)
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@gollum said in Crusaders v Blues:
So is Tana's "mana" not giving the Blues the huge lift everyone expected?
I'm shocked. As apparently that was what they needed.
I call bullshit on that. They are playing a hell of a lot better and if anyone carries fault for that loss (against a world class forward pack) it is Steve Jackson.
That maul defence should have been a focus leading into the game knowing the Crusaders go to but I guess they spent all work working on their previously poor lineout.
I am wondering what a flow on effect not having Patrick T available during the off season has had. A good amount of this work should have been done back then. -
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@Crucial said in Crusaders v Blues:
@gollum said in Crusaders v Blues:
So is Tana's "mana" not giving the Blues the huge lift everyone expected?
I'm shocked. As apparently that was what they needed.
I call bullshit on that. They are playing a hell of a lot better and if anyone carries fault for that loss (against a world class forward pack) it is Steve Jackson.
That maul defence should have been a focus leading into the game knowing the Crusaders go to but I guess they spent all work working on their previously poor lineout.
I am wondering what a flow on effect not having Patrick T available during the off season has had. A good amount of this work should have been done back then.They have let two games slip at the end now. It is a cliche but they have yet to develop winning habits required to close out games
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@gollum said in Crusaders v Blues:
So now the only thing holding them back is not having their team 100% available in pre (unlike everyone else), a forwards coach (not the guy Tana brought with him), and some time to train re mauls.
Nice strawman.
I'm not pretending it's that simple, but it's also not as simple as expecting Tana's mana to make them awesome.
They are a much better team than their results and small areas of weakness get ruthlessly exposed in the NZ conference. -
@canefan said in Crusaders v Blues:
@Crucial said in Crusaders v Blues:
@gollum said in Crusaders v Blues:
So is Tana's "mana" not giving the Blues the huge lift everyone expected?
I'm shocked. As apparently that was what they needed.
I call bullshit on that. They are playing a hell of a lot better and if anyone carries fault for that loss (against a world class forward pack) it is Steve Jackson.
That maul defence should have been a focus leading into the game knowing the Crusaders go to but I guess they spent all work working on their previously poor lineout.
I am wondering what a flow on effect not having Patrick T available during the off season has had. A good amount of this work should have been done back then.They have let two games slip at the end now. It is a cliche but they have yet to develop winning habits required to close out games
Yep, and obviously to develop winning habits you first have to start winning. That's why it is so difficult in this comp to dig yourself out of a losing streak.
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@Crucial said in Crusaders v Blues:
Nice strawman.
I'm not pretending it's that simple, but it's also not as simple as expecting Tana's mana to make them awesome.I agree with you on that. My issue was coach after coach had failed at the Blues, people expected exactlky that from Tana.
When Tana was named (- a guy who was a disaster as a coach at Toulon & good at Counties, a side with good resourses that has underperformed in the past) a lot of Tana fans leapt on the bandwagon talking up how he was ideal as his "mana" would be pivotal, or his understanding of the islanders would be great (as if Pat Lam didn't bring that). There were a stack of posts on her plugging exactly that
The Blues issues are far more structual than bringing in an inspirational green young coach can turn around & hyping him up just sets him up to fail. And he is certainly not the coaching legend folks think he is.
You only have to look at what Lam has done offshore, he didn't suddenly become good after being terrible at the Blues, he just got to work in good structure for a change.
