2016-2017 World Sevens Series
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@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
However, given that so many AB's aren't playing the 10's you simply aren't going to get them in to play 7's.
there is literally not one person on this forum who doesn't realise this - but thanks for pointing it out all the same
Well, in your first post you said that if they brought in the stars they would generate a crowd. There have been plenty of tournaments in Wellington without stars that sold out. There are currently plenty of tournaments around the world without stars which continually sell out.
The problem is not that there aren't stars playing sevens, it's that people don't really have an interest in sevens as a sport. You mention the IPL and EPL well those are massive competitions - obviously the big competitions are going to have the best players and have stars. A big competition is just going to create stars by virtue of being a big competition. The problem is that there just isn't a large market for sevens rugby. In New Zealand, the other 9 tournaments are all on the rugby channel.
Senatla, Baker, Serevi in his day - there have been plenty of stars of 7's rugby. The problem is that in New Zealand, there probably aren't 34,500 people who could pick Senatla out of a line up. It would be a bit like if we had a hurling match in New Zealand. No one here knows anything about hurling. They can bring all the stars out but if they aren't household names then who cares? I'm sure the world's best hockey player is probably some Australian and he probably comes here and plays all the time but most people couldn't care less.
Jonah, Cully, Savea and Barrett are stars in a different sport - rugby union. The trouble is that New Zealanders care a lot about rugby union. The problem is that sevens as a sport is subservient and inferior to rugby union. If sevens was to one day rival rugby union then Senatla would be making millions and it would be easy to market a tournament off of him. So you have to market the tournament as a fun, relaxed day out - which has been successfully done.
ok quite a lot to take in there so:
Name one successful ongoing tournament that doesn't have stars to draw people in or doesn't leverage those names in marketing. The type of people that draw in the curious, rather than the die hard fan.
What tournaments sold out without a Cully, Jonah or Rushie or even Victor? If there are some, that's great but the success of those sell outs was novelty factor and the success of the black team streets ahead of everyone except Fiji. That is no longer the case and I think a large part of it is there is no star appeal
We had an interest in sevens when Jonah and Cully and TeNana and Rushie played. We even rekindled an interest when SBW and Ardie and Bender were going to play - see where I'm going here? less than 6 months later we've got a nadir
Hydro I'm happy to be shown to be overstating the star appeal but everywhere I look I see normal people throwing their money and opinions at celebrity and star appeal and followings and endorsements.
Spectators pay to see something but overwhelmingly "someone"
Bet you a hypothetical tenner that if Beaudy, Ardie, Reiko and Jules play next year, the crowd doubles
I think it's vital for tournaments to succeed just like it is for concerts, books, plays, films and other public activities to succeed.
I also think it has ever been such for humans. Those huge crowds in the old days were for Snell and Meads and Hadlee and so on and so forth.
Bringing in Stars isn't viable so won't happen I guess but the Gifford article and the scathing of the 7s got me thinking about how much people flock to the people they deem to be stars. What's really the secret behind the mega tournaments or events. They sure as hell won't be running a no import BBL, IPL, EPL anytime soon
Christ there's so much hype in Aus for a fight between Green and Mundine. It'll be a shower of shit but people sure do love to dip into a pocket for a "star" experience
ps the bit about 7s not being rugby union and Barrett being in a different sport is puzzling
I mentioned the tournament in which Roy Kinikinilau was the star and @Bones took the piss but when he got the ball and trampled and fended everyone in his way ( RK , not Bones ) everyone got excited about the new 'star' new 'Jonah' etcetcetc. He had his 15 minutes of Rugby fame. I'm fucked if I could name any other players in the team that year. Had Rush retired ? Had Forbes started? Was Tenana there?
No idea. But it sold out and the atmosphere as it was in those days was sensational.
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I think ultimately these events have a shelf life. Dubai and Hong Kong are obvious exceptions - large expat populations starved of rugby for 99% of the year. Vegas and Vancouver are doing well too for similar reasons.
There are a bunch of reasons why Wellington has gone downhill. The fun police, the drunks, the lack of stars, the ticketing policies, negative media coverage, the lack of atmosphere, etc etc. All have played their part.
The truth is it's really hard to keep an annual event like this rolling in the same location. Sydney has started with a bang (will be sold out again this year) but I imagine support will start to ebb away over the next few years as more people tick it off their list and decide not to return.
Sydney will hit its used by date in about 3-4 years IMO. The fact that Wellington has been going for 10+ is a testament to its early success, but it's also clearly reached it's end.
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I think my point is well shown by a google search. We just had the Wellington Sevens but almost all the articles are about the crowd and nothing about the actual rugby itself.
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@barbarian Hong Kong is successful as it's the one which people from all over the world want, and do, come to. Every year thousands of people flock in from all over the world - you start to see them wandering the streets from about the Tuesday beforehand. Loads of tour groups, rugby teams etc - you just don't get that for the just about everywhere else.
On the Saturday, the south stand is just one MASSIVE piss up, the concourses behind the east and west stands are jammed chockers with people on the beers, the corporate boxes are competitions to see who can have the most elaborate setup of people getting fucked up, and then you have the north stand, where you can enjoy a couple of relaxing beers in sun. The corporate areas (lower tiers of north, east stand) are a bit more child friendly and relaxed. The Sunday, is a bit more relaxed around the stadium, but the south stand is still 100% party mode - abeilt with a slightly slower start. The corporate boxes / areas move to a much more child friendly atmostphere at this point.
So the whole tournament is a really good mix, but if you ask 99% of the people that go of their over riding memory ... they'll talk about the piss-up and the party, not the rugby.
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@barbarian said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
I think ultimately these events have a shelf life.
More or less right.
@Siam asked for someone to name an ongoing tournament that succeeds without stars.
Melbourne Cup Day - I bet 90% of the people who were at the last one couldn't today name two horses that were in the field.
Wearable Arts is another - sells out in minutes and you've got absolutely no idea what you're going to see.
Wellington used to sell out in minutes because it was cool to go and the place to be. Now its not - it's like how for a while a particular bar will be all the rage to go to on Saturday night - and suddenly its not.
NZR let its finger slip off the Wellington pulse and now they've got a problem. They should have put the Sevens on a multi-city rotation two or three seasons ago, so that it was only in Wellington once every three years - and in Auckland/ChCh the other two.
Now they've got a perception problem, because people in Auckland and ChCh will potentially think an uncool tournament is being foisted on them.
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@Chris-B. and why do people go to the Melbourne Cup? To get dressed up and get blind, along with 10s of thousands of others who are doing the same thing. Apparently the best area at the joint now you can't even see the track. You will go to the races, and literally not see a horse all day. And have a fucking amazing time.
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@mariner4life yep, a mate of mine here is a public school boy from Melbourne who goes to the boxing day test on Boxing day every single year, never misses it.
Reckons on average he sees 2 approximately balls bowled live, spend the entire day in the members bar on the sauce.
It's crazy to think that the majority of people go along to these multi-day events to sit in the sun and watch sport the entire time.
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@mariner4life said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Chris-B. and why do people go to the Melbourne Cup? To get dressed up and get blind, along with 10s of thousands of others who are doing the same thing. Apparently the best area at the joint now you can't even see the track. You will go to the races, and literally not see a horse all day. And have a fucking amazing time.
Exactly.
People in Melbourne are actually in fancy dress like Wellington (though they don't realize it ).
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@MajorRage yep, a mate of mine goes to the Adelaide test every year with the same bunch of blokes. They spend half the day out the back of the oval at some area they have set up he reckons is awesome. You pop back in every so often for a gander, or if someone is approaching a milestone, otherwise it's a social event.
People can wank on about going to sport for the sport all they want, but that is a limited crowd. The event and the social aspect is why people pay money to attend something they could watch better on TV.
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Okay first. If anyone wants a good go at $8, back Fiji to win the 7s World Series.
South Africa won't be nearly the team they are now without the best finisher in the game Senatla, and the best forward Kwagga Smith. They don't have ready made replacements for them either. Shakes is just a regular footballer - nothing special in terms of speed and I've never seen him pounce early on counter-attacks the way Senatla does. Kwagga brought a brilliant fetching game to 7's which was gold. They haven't got that with anyone else.
$8 for next best Fiji is crazy good money considering how early in the season it is and the players they'll be losing. Could get a lot more if you think someone else will come good (but I doubt it).
Second. My old login stopped working 🤔 which is fine because bbarcs was just random letters I punched into my keyboard but would be cool if admin could merge my post total! Thanks
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Good points about shelf life, Wellington's longevity and the desire for people to have a piss up - Adelaide night tests reports seem to be all about the concourse.
Not sure about the Wearable arts being synonomous with sporting occasions though
- election turn outs don't rely on stars either (except yank ones)Still subscribe undeniability that stars bring the people however. Decent example being MLS, the most popular sport in America uses Beckhams, Peles and Gerrards to fill the stadiums.
Barrett, Saveas and Smiths would double attendance but like piss up atmosphere again, that won't happen
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@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
Good points about shelf life, Wellington's longevity and the desire for people to have a piss up - Adelaide night tests reports seem to be all about the concourse.
Not sure about the Wearable arts being synonomous with sporting occasions though
- election turn outs don't rely on stars either (except yank ones)Still subscribe undeniability that stars bring the people however. Decent example being MLS, the most popular sport in America uses Beckhams, Peles and Gerrards to fill the stadiums.
Barrett, Saveas and Smiths would double attendance but like piss up atmosphere again, that won't happen
Those guys all turned down a shot at an Olympic medal. I somehow doubt a weekend of shits'n'giggle rugby in a tournament no one goes to with a risk of injury that could fuck their whole AB seasons will hold much appeal.
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@MN5 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
Barrett, Saveas and Smiths would double attendance but like piss up atmosphere again, that won't happen
Those guys all turned down a shot at an Olympic medal. I somehow doubt a weekend of shits'n'giggle rugby in a tournament no one goes to with a risk of injury that could fuck their whole AB seasons will hold much appeal.
Yes Yes MN5 - one might even say "that won't happen"
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@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@MN5 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
Barrett, Saveas and Smiths would double attendance but like piss up atmosphere again, that won't happen
Those guys all turned down a shot at an Olympic medal. I somehow doubt a weekend of shits'n'giggle rugby in a tournament no one goes to with a risk of injury that could fuck their whole AB seasons will hold much appeal.
Yes Yes MN5 - one might even say "that won't happen"
Even last year I thought some of the ABs may have had a crack at an Olympic medal and gone for it like they did in 98 for the Commonwealth games but obviously it didn't happen.
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@MN5 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
You know? That pisses me off? It was killed by the swine that lived in the pig sty that was "let's go beyond having fun and get wasted and throw body waste on everyone and fuck up what was fun and good natured drunkedness and turn it into bottom dwelling depravity so that there is a backlash".
Fun Police... bullshit.
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@booboo Agree 100%. Also, the people who are saying this bullshit often blame "Wellington", while the restrictions on the sale of alcohol to intoxicated persons (among other things) are the result of a change to the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act, not a change in local (Council) policy or law enforcement by the local police. So even if you'd move it to another NZ city, they'd still be bound by that same legislation.
I also fully agree with this tweet:
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Comments from the organisers that the Sevens was perhaps unfairly held out as the poster boy for the tougher legislation are a smokescreen as well. The event was by far the biggest single example of the existing laws and controls not working well enough so of course it would also be the biggest example of whether the new legislation was working.
