Black Caps vs Bangles
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On the subject of cricket it looks like Stuff are doing what we on here did last year and overall I guess they do ok but theres a few "WTF" moments ( standard, it is Stuff after all )
Nathan Astle played one of the best innings I've ever seen "live" ( well, ball by ball on TV ) but whilst he walks into an ODI selection theres no way he gets in a test team ahead of Ross Taylor, Stephen Fleming or Andrew Jones ( anyone who doesn't have a 3/4/5 of Williamson, Taylor, Crowe has rocks in their head )
More love on there for Cairnsy and Fleming than there was on the fern ( rightfully so in my opinion )
Bruce Taylor as a third bowler ? very, very bold call.
Usual suspects Turner, KW, Crowe, BMac, Paddles, Vettori and Bond make everyones top team, rightfully so.
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The pedant in me liked Ben Strang saying -
Brendon McCullum: McCullum is New Zealand’s finest wicketkeeper batsman, even if his back didn’t like it, scoring 12 hundreds at 38.64.
No Ben, he didn't. Not while keeping, which is what you are picking him as. But what would a stuff journalist be without getting his basic facts horribly wrong. I can only assume Ben is on the Millie Elder beat & occasionally watches the IPL so he got to contribute.
Plus he sort of wins by not saying Baz was our first keeper to hit a triple...
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@gollum said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
The pedant in me liked Ben Strang saying -
Brendon McCullum: McCullum is New Zealand’s finest wicketkeeper batsman, even if his back didn’t like it, scoring 12 hundreds at 38.64.
No Ben, he didn't. Not while keeping, which is what you are picking him as. But what would a stuff journalist be without getting his basic facts horribly wrong. I can only assume Ben is on the Millie Elder beat & occasionally watches the IPL so he got to contribute.
Plus he sort of wins by not saying Baz was our first keeper to hit a triple...
Yep.
BMac has 5 tons (15x 50s) as keeper at an average of 34.18
BJ Watling is a bit under the radar. He also has 5 tons (11x 50s), and an average of 41.62 as keeper. -
@MN5 Yeah - It's a toss up between a guy we all know really well and someone who didn't play much but was acknowledged as one of the worlds best at a time when their was a legion of great batsmen.
Rosco's been a great servant of NZ cricket but no one has suggested he is one of the top batsmen in the world even in an age of inflated averages.
Anderson's was the only selection not to include absolute shockers like Rigger, Astle or Cairns though so he shades it by default.
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
@MN5 Yeah - It's a toss up between a guy we all know really well and someone who didn't play much but was acknowledged as one of the worlds best at a time when their was a legion of great batsmen.
Rosco's been a great servant of NZ cricket but no one has suggested he is one of the top batsmen in the world even in an age of inflated averages.
Anderson's was the only selection not to include absolute shockers like Rigger, Astle or Cairns though so he shades it by default.
Donnelly played seven tests. Seven......
I agree Taylor benefits to some extent from the 'inflated averages' era but how many other BCs have the longevity and record he has?
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@gollum said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
The pedant in me liked Ben Strang saying -
Brendon McCullum: McCullum is New Zealand’s finest wicketkeeper batsman, even if his back didn’t like it, scoring 12 hundreds at 38.64.
No Ben, he didn't. Not while keeping, which is what you are picking him as. But what would a stuff journalist be without getting his basic facts horribly wrong. I can only assume Ben is on the Millie Elder beat & occasionally watches the IPL so he got to contribute.
Plus he sort of wins by not saying Baz was our first keeper to hit a triple...
Seriously? You are taking that stance when picking a tea,m form across decades... to play together.... err ok
Many people pick these squads based on peak fitness. In peak fitness McCullum would be playing as a keeper.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
@gollum said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
The pedant in me liked Ben Strang saying -
Brendon McCullum: McCullum is New Zealand’s finest wicketkeeper batsman, even if his back didn’t like it, scoring 12 hundreds at 38.64.
No Ben, he didn't. Not while keeping, which is what you are picking him as. But what would a stuff journalist be without getting his basic facts horribly wrong. I can only assume Ben is on the Millie Elder beat & occasionally watches the IPL so he got to contribute.
Plus he sort of wins by not saying Baz was our first keeper to hit a triple...
Seriously? You are taking that stance when picking a tea,m form across decades... to play together.... err ok
Many people pick these squads based on peak fitness. In peak fitness McCullum would be playing as a keeper.
It's always gonna be a bit tough guaging BMac as the batting average want up after he hung up the gloves but a definite case can be made for BJ Watling. Both are might years ahead of Smithy, Parore and any others I can think of when their batting is taken into account.
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I think McCullum was our best ever keeper, ridiculously agile and awesome reflexes. At his peak he was the best keeper in the world.
It gets muddied when you start talking about a Keeper-Batsmen though. He hung up the gloves due to back problems, and around that time his average started to increase. Pretty hard to say if it was a direct result of hanging up the gloves, or whether he matured as a batsmen as many people do and piled on the runs later in his career.
BJ has the best batting record as a keeper, so it's between him and McCullum really. When you consider everything else McCullum brings to the team in terms of leadership then it's hard to go past him. But as @gollum says his stats are a little misleading as he only kept for half his career.
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No, I'd lean towards Baz in as a keeper batsman and he was excellent as a keeper who occasionally slogged some runs.
But the "selector" made a point of listing his overall batting, ignoring that the highlights were as a specialist batsman aftyer giving up the gloves. So if you are picking him as a keper you need to assess his record as a keeper. Which Ben didn't. And the "record" he cited was not Baz as a keeper.
Its me expecting specialist cricket journlists to actually know what they are talking about... but it was Stuff...
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We are bowling. Southee with an early wicket.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
Many people pick these squads based on peak fitness. In peak fitness McCullum would be playing as a keeper.
I think the point is McCullum wouldn't be at peak fitness batting, because he would need to keep before batting.
If you take the "peak" of McCullum's career as a keeper, say anywhere between his 5 or 10 best tests with the gloves his record is every bit as underwhelming as his competition.
I didn't see enough of Smith, but adjusting for era his statistics are comparable to McCullum. Watling trumps them both.
Watling, Parore, Smith and McCullum all only had 2 test centuries against non Zimbot/Bangle opposition.
Wouldn't criticize any of those selections - but would certainly argue against McCullum being a slam dunk as we was treated in that article.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
I think McCullum was our best ever keeper, ridiculously agile and awesome reflexes. At his peak he was the best keeper in the world.
Smith, Parore* and McCullum were all recognized as being the best full-time test gloveman in the world for most of their careers.
- Which made the Germon thing even more ridiculous.
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps vs Bangles:
When you consider everything else McCullum brings to the team in terms of leadership then it's hard to go past him.
Depending on your particular side you likely have Crowe who was light-years ahead tactically (I also have Flem who was Hogan's equal in that regard ), Turner/Hadlee/Cairns all lead themselves - and would not respond to Baz's rara stuff. In fact Cairns there is a little in terms of attitude and intangibles that McCullum brings that Cairns doesn't - plus he does it with the ball.
My XI has 9 former captains - Hadlee and Bond. It likely benefits from the sober reflection of Ian Smith over Baz.
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so is it raining or has cricinfo shit the bed?
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@mariner4life the former but I had to go to the herald to find out
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I think Cricinfo is delayed for some reason. Rights maybe? The app may be up to date
Edit: nope, seems to have shat itself online ... not just delaye (although there are series that are have delayed coverage online)
