Jones Vs Barnes ...
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@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
McCaw, Henry and everyone from the NZ set up have taken way too much crap for that result and it's about time Barnes took his fair share too.
Holy shit this is incredible. Today on TSF: "It's about time Barnes took some of the blame for the 2007 QF".
Brilliant.
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I'm not going to waste my time reading the article.
What I did want to say is that I saw O'Brien talking to some IRB suits outside Stade de France before the France-England SF and was sorely tempted to say something to him, or at least make a comment in earshot of him (say perhaps, now we know what Fiji felt like in 1999
). In the end I thought better of it and just walked past. -
@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
McCaw, Henry and everyone from the NZ set up have taken way too much crap for that result and it's about time Barnes took his fair share too.
Holy shit this is incredible. Today on TSF: "It's about time Barnes took some of the blame for the 2007 QF".
Brilliant.
You're kidding right, or trolling.
Jones is trolling bigtime, and we just can't resist taking the bait. Barnes swallowed his whistle in that game, and we didn't know how to cope with it. We've seen it happen in big games since: Bryce Lawrence in 2011 is the obvious example.
As someone said above: Barnes ain't the reason we lost, but it sure as hell was one of the reasons.
If you go back to the laws at the time, it was a goddamn penalty fest. Pocock would have had a field day under those interpretations - and he single handedly won against SA 4 years later. SA won the thing with a few driving mauls and a good kicker. To have the weight of possession and territory that the ABs got and not win penalties, under the laws as they were was just short of insane. Fuck it, it was insane. As I've said before, we wouldn't have got a penalty if one of the Frenchies pulled out a gun and shot someone. What we didn't do was cope with that - fair enough, that's on us. But by fuck Barnes was a contributor.
The post-match mewling was pretty bad. What really cheesed me was the focus on the forward pass by media, when it's the other 79 minutes that actually did the damage.
In the long run though, that's what has set up AB rugby. Play that game again, and I don't think you'd see the same mental weakness. So really,maybe we should be sending Wayne-O a box of beers to say thanks mate.
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@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
McCaw, Henry and everyone from the NZ set up have taken way too much crap for that result and it's about time Barnes took his fair share too.
Holy shit this is incredible. Today on TSF: "It's about time Barnes took some of the blame for the 2007 QF".
Brilliant.
And you haven't even made it to the US election thread yet!
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Just a quick thought.
Given the All Black team and management made no public comment about the game until some 9 months later (when Ali Williams questioned the penalty count after Ted was reappointed). And Barnes wasn't in NZ listening to Radio Sport or reading the Herald or Dom Post it must have been the fair objective caring British media that caused Barnesy and his family such angst. How is that even possible?
I forgive the forward pass. Not the non awarding of the second half penalties.
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@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
McCaw, Henry and everyone from the NZ set up have taken way too much crap for that result and it's about time Barnes took his fair share too.
Holy shit this is incredible. Today on TSF: "It's about time Barnes took some of the blame for the 2007 QF".
Brilliant.
Well it is. He hasn't yet as far as I can see. Happy to be proven wrong.
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Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article.
So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!
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@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article.
So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!
Finally an Aussie that actually gets it.
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So Walrus face on a wind-up. Gee that's a surprise.
I'm thrilled with how that pack of arrogant fluffybunnies as Kafe puts it, conducted themselves in the aftermath. I was happy to see how New Zealanders largely stood around the team too.
I will note that it appears Barnes, after all the torment his family has gone through, hasn't learnt what constitutes a forward pass in the decade since.
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> Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article. > > So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!~~~ This really is my favourite post of the month! -
@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article.
So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!
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@nzzp said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
In the long run though, that's what has set up AB rugby. Play that game again, and I don't think you'd see the same mental weakness. So really,maybe we should be sending Wayne-O a box of beers to say thanks mate.
I know a lot of the fern haven't watched the game back but honestly the entire second half to me was an incredibly focused and cool headed performance given the circumstances, culminating in the Rodders try. The problem was the Michalak try came less than a minute after the kick off following that. It was a massive kick in the nuts and with 7 minutes on the clock and injuries mounting that's really when the panic kicked in.
Judged as a whole though I would consider it a better performance than the 2011 Final. Different result. So how much did we really learn?
I think we have a tendency to trace the current success back to that loss and to be honest I think the less cited post-3N purge in 2004 of the older players and a greater focus on culture got things cooking. It was the building blocks they put in place during 05-06 that helped them whether reappointment and poor returns in 08-09 against the Boks.
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@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Judged as a whole though I would consider it a better performance than the 2011 Final. Different result. So how much did we really learn?
2011 they changed the manner in which they played during the game to reduce errors. 2007 they were composed and their only failure was an inability to recognise that Barnes was a rabbit in the spotlight.
2011 the pressure would have been much greater - another four years, at home, with a chance for redemption. I'm amazed at how well they coped quite frankly.
In saying that, I certainly don't wish to diminish the good point you made about the cultural shift in the team.
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@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
I think we have a tendency to trace the current success back to that loss and to be honest I think the less cited post-3N purge in 2004 of the older players and a greater focus on culture got things cooking. It was the building blocks they put in place during 05-06 that helped them whether reappointment and poor returns in 08-09 against the Boks.
I agree 2004 was the year when we really started to change the culture, following the meeting Henry had with some of the senior ABs including Umaga, which he calls "the most important meeting of my career". The biggest positive from 2007 was that we retained the coaching setup which actually allowed us to take our learnings through to 2011 and 2015, which was a massive shift from previous WCs.
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Btw.
An article with Barnes talking about 07 would actually be quite interesting.
But it comes with the walrus editorialising, which is just too ridiculous for words to have an unhinged, bitter, and unbalanced figure of ridicule to be sermonising on balanced behaviour when things don't go your way.
Obviously the NZH focused equally on Barnes and Walrus, coz clicks.
So, did Barnes say much of interest? Asks a no longer bitter, slightly abashed, understanding nz rugby fan.
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@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article.
So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!
Hang on, you do know that the Walrus is writing for a Pommy paper, not a Kiwi one
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@No-Quarter said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
I think we have a tendency to trace the current success back to that loss and to be honest I think the less cited post-3N purge in 2004 of the older players and a greater focus on culture got things cooking. It was the building blocks they put in place during 05-06 that helped them whether reappointment and poor returns in 08-09 against the Boks.
I agree 2004 was the year when we really started to change the culture, following the meeting Henry had with some of the senior ABs including Umaga, which he calls "the most important meeting of my career". The biggest positive from 2007 was that we retained the coaching setup which actually allowed us to take our learnings through to 2011 and 2015, which was a massive shift from previous WCs.
Holy shit NQ, are you actually an AB who pops on here to talk to us every now and again ? reading the above one would think you were part of the team.
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@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article.
So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!
Totally missing the point.
McCaw and Henry amongst others have discussed the game and when they have done they've had the humility to at least admit their failings that led to that result.
Barnes continues to discuss the game and its aftermath - but never once has he admitted that was a sub par game from him. Hell I do not believe he even has had the stones to state specifically that the forward pass was missed.
He is happy to focus on the crap he copped in the media though and what a martyr that made him. Compared to Henry, Richie and Tew it was small fry.
In the minutes following the game I wanted a formal IRB statement, four years ago I would have settled for Barnes saying he had a poor game, at this point acknowledging he at least swallowed the whistle would go a long way.
His woeful refereeing performances are matched only by his self awareness. His silence let's scribes say crap like "apart from the forward pass he was excellent."
It's tough argument to make but perhaps if you can put me in touch with one of the talents on GAGR who put together those YouTube videos bemoaning every call after a Bledisloe I can commission them to create a series from that game that will make it clearer?
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@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
@nzzp said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
In the long run though, that's what has set up AB rugby. Play that game again, and I don't think you'd see the same mental weakness. So really,maybe we should be sending Wayne-O a box of beers to say thanks mate.
I know a lot of the fern haven't watched the game back but honestly the entire second half to me was an incredibly focused and cool headed performance given the circumstances, culminating in the Rodders try. The problem was the Michalak try came less than a minute after the kick off following that. It was a massive kick in the nuts and with 7 minutes on the clock and injuries mounting that's really when the panic kicked in.
Judged as a whole though I would consider it a better performance than the 2011 Final. Different result. So how much did we really learn?
I think we have a tendency to trace the current success back to that loss and to be honest I think the less cited post-3N purge in 2004 of the older players and a greater focus on culture got things cooking. It was the building blocks they put in place during 05-06 that helped them whether reappointment and poor returns in 08-09 against the Boks.
I've watched it a few times and as soon as Leonard came on (54th minute) we started to look panicky I reckon. Leonard who had previously providing spark and speed off the bench was scattery and rushed.
From my view he seemed to be feeling the pressure. Then Masoe who came on not too long after also had a couple of deer in the headlight moments.
The injuries were a setback, but we had the "cattle", we had opportunities but it just wasn't our night.
The forward pass meh.
As for other missed infringements, only one really sticks out, but the so called rest were not really that obvious IMO.
