Other Cricket
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he's got a greater claim to "greatest" than Kallis
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@mariner4life said in Other Cricket:
he's got a greater claim to "greatest" than Kallis
Probably a fair call.
Kallis was awfully dull whereas Warnie absolutely captured the imagination like few ( if any ) before him.
Gilly should have left out the bullshit about the batting though, Warnie was about Southee level in that department.
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Murali was a batter spinner than Warne
(just tagging @NTA so he sees this)
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For the record I think Kallis is in the conversation for greatest all rounder, but not greatest cricketer, his bowling wasn't good enough and his batting while excellent wasn't above his peers (like Ponting in his prime etc)
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@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
For the record I think Kallis is in the conversation for greatest all rounder, but not greatest cricketer, his bowling wasn't good enough and his batting while excellent wasn't above his peers (like Ponting in his prime etc)
Exactly this, if it was greatest alrounder then I think he is a leading contender, but greatest cricketer seems a massive stretch surely
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@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
Murali was a batter spinner than Warne
(just tagging @NTA so he sees this)
What's a "batter spinner"?
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@Rapido said in Other Cricket:
I think Root is better than Kane.
All fabulous players, though. All the other 3 have higher peaks than Kane IMO. But for an overall career ranking - I would rank Kohli lowest out of the 4 due to not sustaining it long enough compared to the (tough) competition.
Root, albeit handicapping himself for the first 2-thirds or 3-quarters of his career with his crappy conversion rates, has squeaked ahead of Kane IMO, due to better performances against more of the better teams and away from home.
But, if we are talking all 3 formats, and not just tests. Then Kohli re-enters that chat due to his crazy good record across the 3 for a long period of time.
Yet Root is yet to hit a century in Australia after 14 tests and Kane has 2 in Australia in only 7 tests. For the last decade (since start of 2015), Kane averages 63, Root around 50 - that's a pretty big gap. Kane has been hamstrung by 2-3 test series and infrequent series against "top" teams and his home stats are a lot better than his away stats. But Root never took the number 3 spot that England needed him to take for his whole career leaving a whole series of players to sacrifice themselves there.
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@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
For the record I think Kallis is in the conversation for greatest all rounder, but not greatest cricketer, his bowling wasn't good enough and his batting while excellent wasn't above his peers (like Ponting in his prime etc)
Being the best ever isn't just about numbers and that's where Kallis falls down, as does a guy like Sangakkara. Great players both but they haven't left a mark on global cricket.
Putting Bradman aside, that's Warne's claim to the title. And Kohli as well. It's how they captured their nation and then the wider world, both on and off the field.
We'll be talking about Warney far longer than we ever will about Kallis. And that's greatness beyond numbers.
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@NTA said in Other Cricket:
@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
Murali was a batter spinner than Warne
(just tagging @NTA so he sees this)
What's a "batter spinner"?
probably the same as spinning batter
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@barbarian said in Other Cricket:
@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
For the record I think Kallis is in the conversation for greatest all rounder, but not greatest cricketer, his bowling wasn't good enough and his batting while excellent wasn't above his peers (like Ponting in his prime etc)
Being the best ever isn't just about numbers and that's where Kallis falls down, as does a guy like Sangakkara. Great players both but they haven't left a mark on global cricket.
Putting Bradman aside, that's Warne's claim to the title. And Kohli as well. It's how they captured their nation and then the wider world, both on and off the field.
We'll be talking about Warney far longer than we ever will about Kallis. And that's greatness beyond numbers.
Yeah I do agree with that, outside of Bradman I have Lara at the top. He drew crouds everywhere he went in his peak, and what a player he was to watch. Warne is certainly up there alongside him in that regard.
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@NTA said in Other Cricket:
@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
Murali was a batter spinner than Warne
(just tagging @NTA so he sees this)
What's a "batter spinner"?
Damn typo ruined my fishing trip
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@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
@barbarian said in Other Cricket:
@No-Quarter said in Other Cricket:
For the record I think Kallis is in the conversation for greatest all rounder, but not greatest cricketer, his bowling wasn't good enough and his batting while excellent wasn't above his peers (like Ponting in his prime etc)
Being the best ever isn't just about numbers and that's where Kallis falls down, as does a guy like Sangakkara. Great players both but they haven't left a mark on global cricket.
Putting Bradman aside, that's Warne's claim to the title. And Kohli as well. It's how they captured their nation and then the wider world, both on and off the field.
We'll be talking about Warney far longer than we ever will about Kallis. And that's greatness beyond numbers.
Yeah I do agree with that, outside of Bradman I have Lara at the top. He drew crouds everywhere he went in his peak, and what a player he was to watch. Warne is certainly up there alongside him in that regard.
Lara was the best batsman to watch as I think I’ve mentioned on here about a million times. Amazing record obviously but he had that X factor that made him so compelling.
Tendulkar for me had no where near the same appeal
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@NTA said in Other Cricket:
@MN5 said in Other Cricket:
Tendulkar for me had no where near the same appeal
"Racist!"
Yep, I prefer my men much blacker, Tendulkar is merely brown
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I don't have a problem with Kallis being on a greatest ever list somewhere, even if not top 5 or 10 in batting or bowling - his numbers and achievements are phenomenal. I'd put Sobers above him as an allrounder, though. I also don't think Kallis would make the all-time XI.
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@Godder said in Other Cricket:
I don't have a problem with Kallis being on a greatest ever list somewhere, even if not top 5 or 10 in batting or bowling - his numbers and achievements are phenomenal. I'd put Sobers above him as an allrounder, though. I also don't think Kallis would make the all-time XI.
Me neither.
I would have two 100% shoe ins, Bradman and Sobers ( assuming it is the version of him that can bowl different varieties ).
One huge probable in Adam Gilchrist. ( but then so many people might argue such and such was a better pure "keeper" than he was, then the likes of Alan Knott, Jeff Dujon, Rod Marsh etc get a mention )
If a spinner is needed it's a toss up between Warnie and Murali. No one else comes close.
But then again I might assess the pitch and decide from my pool of ten quicks that I'd have to narrow down to about four which one gets a game.......( Paddles, Ambrose, Marshall, Garner, Lillee, McGrath, Waqar, Wasim, Steyn, Trueman ).
Is there room for another all rounder ? Imran Khan for me makes the biggest case with his absolutely amazing record.
Open with the old boys Hobbs and Sutcliffe........56 and 60 respectively as openers, fuck yeah......
Then assuming Bradman is a lock at 3 and Sobers is a lock at 6 we have room for just the two specialist batsmen out of Tendulkar, Lara, Richards, Ponting, Hammond, Kallis, Dravid, Sangakkara, Chappell, Barrington............plus more I can't think of......
.....and of course some of these guys might not be quite as good as their records indicate ( Sangakkara, possibly Kallis ) and some might be better than their records ( Botham, Gooch )
Crickets a funny game
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If I was picking another all-rounder, I'd use that as a tiebreaker, so Kallis instead of another batter, or Sir Paddles instead of another bowler, or Gilchrist instead of another 'keeper (could pick him as an all-time keeper on keeping skills anyway, but batting is a handy tiebreaker). Imran was tremendous with bat and ball, but IMO wasn't quite as good a bowler as Sir Paddles (not that he needed to be once Wasim and Waqar were in the team...).
Always a fun exercise!
