Chiefs 2025
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@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2025:
I think the loose forward trio will now be one of the following (dependent on where Jacobson is played):
6 Finau
7 Jacobson
8 ParkerOR
6 Finau
7 Brown
8 JacobsonThere are plenty of other players who can play no.8 like Wrampling and Boshier. Jacob Norris would be the likely injury replacement.
I think they will start parker at 8. but probably end up with wrampling. LJ has to stay at 7
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@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2025:
I think the loose forward trio will now be one of the following (dependent on where Jacobson is played):
6 Finau
7 Jacobson
8 ParkerOR
6 Finau
7 Brown
8 JacobsonThere are plenty of other players who can play no.8 like Wrampling and Boshier. Jacob Norris would be the likely injury replacement.
That’s unfortunate for Sititi, hopefully he recovers well from the surgery.
It’ll be interesting to see how McMillan reshuffles his loose forward trio. I’ve taken a quick look at some numbers from this season’s NPC (source: RugbyPass), and how Wrampling-Alec, Boshier and Parker played at eight. These are their averages across six games played at number eight (Boshier played a 7th game at 8 but left the game after 14 minutes so I left that out).
There’s some clear differences between the player profiles: Wrampling-Alec looks to be the most potent attacking threat, making the most metres, offloads and beating the most defenders on average. Boshier’s added value is primarily in his lineout game. And Parker looks to be the most potent threat, if only slightly, for stealing the ball. All seem to be solid defenders, with plenty of tackle involvements.
That being said, it could indeed well be that McMillan puts Jacobson at the back with Brown at openside, the latter being an experienced Super Rugby player with 51 games played for the Brumbies (SR exp.: Boshier, 26 caps; Parker, 22; Wrampling-Alec, 0).
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Boshier is more suited to no.8 (his position for Taranaki) but I wouldn't read too much into the lineout stats. That's more of a reflection of their NPC team lineout systems. Boshier is easily the shortest of the three and both Wrampling and Parker are good lineout options, and lifters due to their height.
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@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2025:
Boshier is easily the shortest of the three and both Wrampling and Parker are good lineout options, and lifters due to their height.
If I had a choice between height and lineout takes as 'signs' to interpret someone's lineout ability, I would personally always go for the takes. There's a reason why the calls go to certain players and why NPC lineout systems focus on them.
This could be different things, like, the player has shown an ability to catch and transfer lineout ball cleanly or they act as the caller and are most comfortable calling to themselves.
Or it could also just be that certain players are more suited for different roles. If you had a choice between Boshier and Arese Poliko to crash up in midfield to set up your lineout attack, it makes sense that Boshier secures the ball and Poliko makes the run.
With someone like Wrampling, you want him to be in position to use his athleticism and dynamism as a carrier, so it makes sense that he's less present in the lineout, even if he's taller than someone like Boshier.
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@Mauss My point was more that the use of a specific player in the lineout often differs from team to team. Take Wrampling for example, I remember him being used a lot for the NZ U20s last year, but less so for Waikato. Sititi was probably used as much, if not more, than Barrett for the ABs. As you say, it is dependent on the roles of each player within your system and where you want to throw the ball to (front vs back).
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@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs 2025:
@SBW1 He's having knee surgery today. Ideally all parties will want him back before the end of Super however by the same token they won't want to rush him if he isn't ready.
It’s strange to me that his surgery waited till this time.
No effort to get it done right away and get him more rugby this year is a bit strange - he’s our best player and we’re happy to not have him out there in our premium local competition says a lot about NZR being only about the ABs.
The wait could be to try to make sure he doesn’t rush back, but I guess more likely is just that the NZ health system takes this long? I dunno but I find it strange.
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@gt12 It's not uncommon to have to wait for the swelling to go down before surgery is performed. Especially if it wasn't properly diagnosed until they got back to NZ.
I am with you though in the sense that we are just guessing due to another example of the general lack of communication in rugby.
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McMillan claiming to not even know the extent of the injury or how it happened is so NZR. And, weak pissed-ass journos won't ask a Super coach how in the fuck he doesn't know.
If it is an ACL, my understanding is that surgery straight away is best, unless you get misdiagnosed, however of course we don't know what kind of injury it is, thanks again to NZR. I assume it isn't half that bad but who knows?
Fan engagement is based on providing information and content on topics important to fans. It amazes me that NZR still doesn't get this - if one of our best players is out we want to know what happened, how long he'll be out, and what it means for our team. They care less than we do.
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@gt12 said in Chiefs 2025:
It amazes me that NZR still doesn't get this
it's not just NZR
The entire elite rugby community treats everything like they are guarding state secrets. It's fucking ridiculous.
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@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs 2025:
McMillian did add this context
“It happened on the end of year tour and it’s taken a while to get to this point, because he just hasn’t had the surgeons available to be able to operate on.”So, partly what I thought. NZ really is becoming a bit of third-world country.
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@gt12 said in Chiefs 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in Chiefs 2025:
McMillian did add this context
“It happened on the end of year tour and it’s taken a while to get to this point, because he just hasn’t had the surgeons available to be able to operate on.”So, partly what I thought. NZ really is becoming a bit of third-world country.
And the fact Sititi was overseas on holiday may of helped?? If they knew he needed surgery he would of had it, and if noone was here to do it they would of flown him overseas. Geez he wouldn't be in public sysetm.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2025:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2025:
It amazes me that NZR still doesn't get this
it's not just NZR
The entire elite rugby community treats everything like they are guarding state secrets. It's fucking ridiculous.
Change is hopefully/has to be on the way.
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@Smudge said in Chiefs 2025:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2025:
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2025:
It amazes me that NZR still doesn't get this
it's not just NZR
The entire elite rugby community treats everything like they are guarding state secrets. It's fucking ridiculous.
Change is hopefully/has to be on the way.
It says it's launching mid Jan so should be any day now. Then we'll get a good summary of who's injured etc to kick off the season.
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@Canes4life I've registered but haven't received a single email yet
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@Bovidae I don’t disagree with your general point about team systems and requirements. I suppose it depends on whether one thinks if the lineout requires a specific skillset or whether most professional loose forwards could probably do a job as a jumper. I’m quite fussy about the lineout so I tend to think more that it’s the former but I can’t really think of a way of proving that sentiment.
For the record, I’m not claiming that either Wrampling-Alec or Parker are bad lineout options at all. I just wanted to point out something that Boshier could bring to the table. Looking at some of his other contributions, like metres made or defenders beaten, it might be hard to justify starting him ahead of either Wrampling-Alec or Parker. If Jacobson shifts to 8, it might even be better to put Parker at 7, as he’s more of a jackal-threat than someone like Boshier while still being mobile around the park. With Vaa’i, Lord and Finau being in the Chiefs back five for 2025, lineout is probably not high on the list of priorities for the number 8 anyway.
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2025:
Take Wrampling for example, I remember him being used a lot for the NZ U20s last year, but less so for Waikato.
I do strongly disagree with this claim, however. Wrampling-Alec was used somewhat regularly as a lineout option for the NZ U20s in 2023 (1.2 average takes across 5 games), but that was more out of necessity than choice, Laidlaw selecting a few too many short locks (T. Cahill, H. Morrisson, W. Stodart) and loose forwards who lacked any lineout pedigree (C. Flanders, S. Hainsworth-Fa’aofo, P. Lakai). There was nobody to really take control of the lineout and it showed, a very poor lineout rate of 72,6% across the tournament the inevitable result.
When Jono Gibbes selected genuine lineout specialists the following year – like Liam Jack and Andrew Smith – for the 2024 NZ U20 season, the lineout success-rate both spectacularly improved and Wrampling-Alec barely played a role in the lineout. During the U20 TRC (he was injured for the World Championship), Wrampling-Alec wasn’t part of a single defensive lineout and took part in 13 out of 32 attacking lineouts (against South Africa, Argentina, and Australia). Of those 13 lineouts across the three games, he wasn’t the target once, acting instead as an occasional lifter and pillar for the attacking maul, using his considerable ballast to push it forward.
So I don’t think players suddenly become proficient in the lineout, just because the team systems change. Someone like Sititi is, in my view, an outlier. He can basically do everything to a very very high level, including being a solid lineout target at Test level. He seems to be both a next-level athlete as well as someone who prepares really well. If you tell him to convert to the front-row, I’m sure he could make it work. But Sititi’s freakishness shouldn’t really be extrapolated to other loose forwards, I don’t think. You still need specialists. If not, your lineout success rate might well plummet.
