Black Caps tour of India
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Hell of a turnaround in form for the BC’s and also TSF’s opinions on the fortunes of our BC’s.
All I read on this forum not so long ago was doom and gloom, golden age is over, we’re shit etc etc.
It was all valid at the time, as we’d been done by the f’ing Bangles at home, someone else who we should have beaten, then downtrowled by SL.
A lot to like in this series, none more so than multiple people standing up at different times when needed - much the same as when we went out our WTC winning run.
Blundell is justifiably copping some heat on here, but he isn’t getting dropped any time soon. Something that is a hallmark of the BC’s of the last 10 years or so, they back their players, especially those with a good track record, and give them time to find form. Take Nicholls for instance, he’s the only ‘regular’ that I remember being dropped, but he went through a bad spell of about 2 years (and plenty of luck) before being dumped.
BC’s love a spinning allrounder, especially in NZ conditions. I’d be bloody surprised if spot goes to anyone but Phillips. Things happen when he’s involved, call it x factor, or whatever, but he’s surely a lock in.
I’m a Southee fan, but I feel he’s getting close to the last chance saloon. I think he’ll get another opportunity back on home soil to show if he’s still got it, especially with a few young fullas putting the pressure on.
No idea what they’ll do with the batting order. Someone has to miss out, I think it’ll be out of Conway and Young to see who that might be.
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@Gunner said in Black Caps tour of India:
Hell of a turnaround in form for the BC’s and also TSF’s opinions on the fortunes of our BC’s.
All I read on this forum not so long ago was doom and gloom, golden age is over, we’re shit etc etc.
It was all valid at the time, as we’d been done by the f’ing Bangles at home, someone else who we should have beaten, then downtrowled by SL.
A lot to like in this series, none more so than multiple people standing up at different times when needed - much the same as when we went out our WTC winning run.
Blundell is justifiably copping some heat on here, but he isn’t getting dropped any time soon. Something that is a hallmark of the BC’s of the last 10 years or so, they back their players, especially those with a good track record, and give them time to find form. Take Nicholls for instance, he’s the only ‘regular’ that I remember being dropped, but he went through a bad spell of about 2 years (and plenty of luck) before being dumped.
BC’s love a spinning allrounder, especially in NZ conditions. I’d be bloody surprised if spot goes to anyone but Phillips. Things happen when he’s involved, call it x factor, or whatever, but he’s surely a lock in.
I’m a Southee fan, but I feel he’s getting close to the last chance saloon. I think he’ll get another opportunity back on home soil to show if he’s still got it, especially with a few young fullas putting the pressure on.
No idea what they’ll do with the batting order. Someone has to miss out, I think it’ll be out of Conway and Young to see who that might be.
Conway needs to fix his footwork, but he has runs on the board so to speak, so I think he gets more time to fix things. They will have to make room for Will, or he will be made to wait behind Kane. Southee should consider calling time if not now, after a final home Summer hurrah on helpful pitches. We seem to have some depth in a number of areas right now, the tough part is trying to give everyone some playing time (in the case of the bowlers, when everyone is back fit I mean)
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour of India:
I see Kohli has dropped to 14th in the test batting rankings one point ahead of Darryl Mitchell. Kane and Ravindra in Top 10.
Somehow Matt Henry is ranked the 10th best all-rounder and (less surprisingly) 10th rated bowler
Kohli has always been a very good, but not great, test batsmen. A tier below Kane, Root and Smith. In ODIs and T20s though he's probably unmatched by any player in history which keeps him in the "fab 4" bracket.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
If you want to win a test series in India make sure the captain is an opener who bats left handed
Not to nit pick but Gilly only opened in ODIs, in tests he was the master at coming out at 400/5 and smacking the deflated bowlers around for a quick fire ton to really rub their faces in the dirt.
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@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@SouthernMann said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@SouthernMann said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@SouthernMann said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
Young has to stay Kane back in Blundel to 7
Phillips gone, not enough runs and you don’t need another spinner you have Ravindra as a back up 2nd spinner.
Phillips will not bowl in NZ conditions and doesn’t warrant a batting spot ahead of the others on form,
Too hard to throw your opening bat the gloves in test matches he would be on a hiding to nothing.
And you do not need your opening bat to do a finger keeping.This is absolutely crazy talk.
Philips took five in Wellington just this year.
Shit happens when he comes on to bowl….
I will admit he has been a tad disappointing with his batting returns and the performance of Patel and Santner makes it a tough decision……
But Philips spot in the side is safe surely.
I don't believe it is.
You do not need 2 or 3 spinning options in NZ, he does not hold his place ahead of the top 6 with Williams back, to have him in you have to not pick Young which would be foolish
Or you pick Phillips as the no.1 spinner not an option in my book or you go with 2 seamers in NZ which is crazy.Young played well. I just can't see him retained with Williamson back. A pre-christmas test series is one where you want someone like Phillips, and don't need to pick a specialist spinner. Phillips development as a spinner has been brillant. Still leaks some runs. Just a top genuine wicket taking option now. He has even mentioned he enjoys bowling more than batting. Then run a seam attack of O'Rourke, Southee, Henry and Nathan Smith. Smith deserves a shot. He'd balance the side well at 8 too.
Nah I don't agree with that.
You don't need an unbalanced team.We all have opinions. Mine is that Phillips is very safe. That we will play four seamers and Will Young will carry the drinks. I just don't see the value in moving around the batting order for a guy who still hadn't scored a test century in 34 innings.
I would select a spinner who takes the ball away from the English batsmen who are very aggressive.
They will sit on off stump to negate an off spinner in NZ conditions.They will handle an off spinner pretty well.Someone who takes it away is more of a threat.Yeah and I'm picking Phillips on the basis that seamers generally dominate the bowli load at this time of year. I also don't have a lot of faith in Young. Looks a million bucks then regularly gets out early. Again, 34 innings as a top order batsman and no centuries. Blundell is the selection question I'm interested in. He will be retained. Needs to be ushered out though
Those innings by Young in India were match winners 2 -50's on a very difficult pitch when no other batsmen got to 30 and he gets dropped lol.without Young you don't win the 3rd test batting was a lot harder than bowling over there.
I appreciate the white knighting of Young given I am a fan and he can rightly say he played a massive part in us winning the series.
Fuck it, why change a winning team ?
We’ll only pick KW if one of the top five get injured.
Mate I used to bag Young for not covering his off stump and knicking off all the time, but credit were its due he has sorted that and toughed it out I respect that.
100% this, he looked so much more assured outside off and left the ball well. He looked like our classiest player on tour, we have some selection head aches ahead of us but I'd hate to see Young left out when he's finally found his feet at this level.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@SouthernMann said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@SouthernMann said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@SouthernMann said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
Young has to stay Kane back in Blundel to 7
Phillips gone, not enough runs and you don’t need another spinner you have Ravindra as a back up 2nd spinner.
Phillips will not bowl in NZ conditions and doesn’t warrant a batting spot ahead of the others on form,
Too hard to throw your opening bat the gloves in test matches he would be on a hiding to nothing.
And you do not need your opening bat to do a finger keeping.This is absolutely crazy talk.
Philips took five in Wellington just this year.
Shit happens when he comes on to bowl….
I will admit he has been a tad disappointing with his batting returns and the performance of Patel and Santner makes it a tough decision……
But Philips spot in the side is safe surely.
I don't believe it is.
You do not need 2 or 3 spinning options in NZ, he does not hold his place ahead of the top 6 with Williams back, to have him in you have to not pick Young which would be foolish
Or you pick Phillips as the no.1 spinner not an option in my book or you go with 2 seamers in NZ which is crazy.Young played well. I just can't see him retained with Williamson back. A pre-christmas test series is one where you want someone like Phillips, and don't need to pick a specialist spinner. Phillips development as a spinner has been brillant. Still leaks some runs. Just a top genuine wicket taking option now. He has even mentioned he enjoys bowling more than batting. Then run a seam attack of O'Rourke, Southee, Henry and Nathan Smith. Smith deserves a shot. He'd balance the side well at 8 too.
Nah I don't agree with that.
You don't need an unbalanced team.We all have opinions. Mine is that Phillips is very safe. That we will play four seamers and Will Young will carry the drinks. I just don't see the value in moving around the batting order for a guy who still hadn't scored a test century in 34 innings.
I would select a spinner who takes the ball away from the English batsmen who are very aggressive.
They will sit on off stump to negate an off spinner in NZ conditions.They will handle an off spinner pretty well.Someone who takes it away is more of a threat.Yeah and I'm picking Phillips on the basis that seamers generally dominate the bowli load at this time of year. I also don't have a lot of faith in Young. Looks a million bucks then regularly gets out early. Again, 34 innings as a top order batsman and no centuries. Blundell is the selection question I'm interested in. He will be retained. Needs to be ushered out though
Those innings by Young in India were match winners 2 -50's on a very difficult pitch when no other batsmen got to 30 and he gets dropped lol.without Young you don't win the 3rd test batting was a lot harder than bowling over there.
I appreciate the white knighting of Young given I am a fan and he can rightly say he played a massive part in us winning the series.
Fuck it, why change a winning team ?
We’ll only pick KW if one of the top five get injured.
Mate I used to bag Young for not covering his off stump and knicking off all the time, but credit were its due he has sorted that and toughed it out I respect that.
100% this, he looked so much more assured outside off and left the ball well. He looked like our classiest player on tour, we have some selection head aches ahead of us but I'd hate to see Young left out when he's finally found his feet at this level.
Yeah me too, we should reward that hard work and graft he has put in to really do well in difficult situations in India.
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour of India:
I see Kohli has dropped to 14th in the test batting rankings one point ahead of Darryl Mitchell. Kane and Ravindra in Top 10.
Kohli (and Smith) with their techniques of hitting off stump deliveries through mid-wicket, should decline as their hand/eye declines in their 30s. So, they should decline earlier that Kane and Root.
But, their peaks should be higher as they are un-bowlable to at their peaks as they hit deliveries to midwicket boundary that have no right to be hit there.
With the historic batting conveyor belt that India and Australia churn out, that is not a bad result if they have a great with a phenomenal 10 year peak rather than 15 years of a. not quite as good, but longer lasting greatness.
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of India:
Young has now overtaken Southee for the most test 50s by a NZ batsmen without a century (9).
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not up to Stephen flemings record 46 -50s 9 test 100s.not a great conversion rate in over 100 tests.
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@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of India:
Young has now overtaken Southee for the most test 50s by a NZ batsmen without a century (9).
.
not up to Stephen flemings record 35 -50s before making the first of his 9 test 100s.
The article says Fleming had 10 x 50s and 1325 runs before getting his first 100.
Dickwella has the current world record of 22.
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of India:
Young has now overtaken Southee for the most test 50s by a NZ batsmen without a century (9).
.
not up to Stephen flemings record 35 -50s before making the first of his 9 test 100s.
The article says Fleming had 10 x 50s and 1325 runs before getting his first 100.
Dickwella has the current world record of 22.
Yeah that is correct I meant conversion rate which I amended
not up to Stephen flemings record 46 -50s 9 test 100s.not a great conversion rate in over 100 tests.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps tour of India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:
If you want to win a test series in India make sure the captain is an opener who bats left handed
Not to nit pick but Gilly only opened in ODIs, in tests he was the master at coming out at 400/5 and smacking the deflated bowlers around for a quick fire ton to really rub their faces in the dirt.
I knew someone would point that out.
Nit picking is what the fern is about.
I don’t even remember Gilly being captain !
But yeah that Oz team or maybe the Windies of the 80s would have to be the best test team of all time
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@Chris said in Black Caps tour of India:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of India:
Young has now overtaken Southee for the most test 50s by a NZ batsmen without a century (9).
.
not up to Stephen flemings record 46 -50s 9 test 100s.not a great conversion rate in over 100 tests.
Flemings conversion rate was awful but aside from that he had a fine record for a New Zealand batsman for as long as he did. A shoe in for an all time XI before KW and Rossco emerged.
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@Rapido said in Black Caps tour of India:
@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour of India:
I see Kohli has dropped to 14th in the test batting rankings one point ahead of Darryl Mitchell. Kane and Ravindra in Top 10.
Kohli (and Smith) with their techniques of hitting off stump deliveries through mid-wicket, should decline as their hand/eye declines in their 30s. So, they should decline earlier that Kane and Root.
But, their peaks should be higher as they are un-bowlable to at their peaks as they hit deliveries to midwicket boundary that have no right to be hit there.
With the historic batting conveyor belt that India and Australia churn out, that is not a bad result if they have a great with a phenomenal 10 year peak rather than 15 years of a. not quite as good, but longer lasting greatness.
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour of India:
I see Kohli has dropped to 14th in the test batting rankings one point ahead of Darryl Mitchell. Kane and Ravindra in Top 10.
Somehow Matt Henry is ranked the 10th best all-rounder and (less surprisingly) 10th rated bowler
I saw an Indian guy calling for Kohli's head and saying he averages less than 33 in tests over the past 5 years.
Sure enough, it's actually true.
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once again i'm behind the thread - but wow, what a fucking result. a clean sweep in India is probably one of the best series results in the history of the game, one that reflects a genuine commitment to test cricket and demonstrates again how outrageous it is that England, Aus and india are trying to effectively cut everyone else out of the finances.
fair play Black Caps, wish England would take a leaf out of your book
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