The Silver Fern

@MiketheSnow that’s more like it

@nostrildamus nah - this is a job for a pact.

@Mauss agree with @nostrildamus this is high quality and totally against the spirit of the bored

What’s crazy is that El-abd and Borthwick were roommates at varsity and Borthwick was an usher at old mate’s wedding.

Sure that had no bearing on Borthwick appointing a guy who couldn’t plug the gaping holes around the ruck before meeting SA. That should’ve been priority 1 given the opponent and that the problem was highlighted by AB exploitation and further underlined when the Wobs found the space just as inviting a week later.

Still, systemic problems aren’t the reason guys like Genge missed regulation tackles or The Scrum Anchor dawdled with almost deliberate disinterest into the defensive line.

@Dodge said in England vs Springboks:

@Smuts said in England vs Springboks:

@nostrildamus said in England vs Springboks:

@Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

@Billy-Webb

Interestingly, when both Curry and Underhill were playing for England together (2019) it was Underhill preferred at 7 with Curry switching to 6. It was actually quite a good balance and of course very quick.

Yes it was a lethal combo.

England pack is short a serious, angry lump in the front row and, with Chessum injured, a mean Martin Johnson-style 4. Martin is average at best. Doesn’t strike fear in the hearts of jacklers at the breakdown, do much of anything in the lineout and isn’t a significant heavy carrier.

He’s also amongst the worst fringe defenders in test rugby.

All of which puts heavy pressure on loosies and 12 to carry in close and on other tighties in the trenches.

Maybe with Chessum and Angry FR Lump to Be IDed Borthwick could afford to start Earl. It was madness to do so without them against the Boks. Should’ve gone with the biggest, meanest 8 in England with Undehill and C-S (who’s going to be a real weapon when he grows up.) then bring Earl on to run at tired players.

Totally disagree about Martin, he’s the rock this pack is built on at the moment, the only lock we’ve got that can push in the scrum and carries hard in the loose - I also think he’s mean in the Johnson sense. He’s young and he is not as dynamic as he was at the end of last season. He needs some work around the fringes but maybe him alongside Chessum would be a better combo than him and Maro.

You’ve watched him more than me. But apart from one good run in the lead up to Underhill’s try I’m not sure I noticed him unless he was getting run over or around.

Itoje may have been ineffective but at least you couldn’t miss him being ineffective

@booboo yeah I know and it’s bullshit

@Bones said in Diving In Rugby:

@Bovidae said in Diving In Rugby:

Most refs are now not rewarding teams for trapping a player in the ruck, or placing the ball into the tackler and expecting a penalty. That is a step in the right direction.

I wish they'd stop rewarding players who could make a steal but instead just hold it on/into the tackled player.

Sure, but that seems like more of a 2017ish thing. Refs demand a clear lift now if you want a reward. If anything they’ve swung back too hard letting tackled players hold on to survive an initial poach, roll over again/jackknife away from poachers etc and that’s before we get to attacking trailers being given licence to go off their feet and seal the breakdown in a way that would result in instant penalization for falling “into the runway” if they were defenders.

Anyone trying to milk a penalty should get carded. Against the spirit of the game and disrespects the referee as sole judge of law and fact on the field.

Lots of good (infuriating) examples up thread to which I’d add:

trapping players in rucks - fucking clear him out: that’s your job if you want to earn fast ball

Placing the ball under the tackler - you obviously don’t want to use the ball so you don’t deserve a penalty

Appealing to the ref to check head contact/neck & crock rolls - grow your hair long and go dive and roll around on the soccer pitch to your little heart’s content or get on with the game

Big distinction between milking and earning penalties though. If the other team can’t scrum, maul or get back on defence without cheating then you’ve earned the penalty.

@Bones don’t think so. He retired shortly after his abominable treatment by the Scots after the 2015 QF.

Think he was keen to ref the Olympics but didn’t get the shout?

@voodoo said in All Blacks v France:

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France:

@Billy-Tell or South African 😂😂😂 resident Saffas exempted - but my God, some of your fellow countrymen and women have a pathological victim complex going on. Andrew Brace tried to rob the Boks on Saturday rather than the Boks being indisciplined and inviting pressure.

I’m not South African! Nor English!

Sure, sure 🤫

Definitely suspect. No one even accused him of being English before he gracelessly refused @stodders compliment just like … a Pom.

@nostrildamus said in England vs Springboks:

@Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

@Billy-Webb

Interestingly, when both Curry and Underhill were playing for England together (2019) it was Underhill preferred at 7 with Curry switching to 6. It was actually quite a good balance and of course very quick.

Yes it was a lethal combo.

England pack is short a serious, angry lump in the front row and, with Chessum injured, a mean Martin Johnson-style 4. Martin is average at best. Doesn’t strike fear in the hearts of jacklers at the breakdown, do much of anything in the lineout and isn’t a significant heavy carrier.

He’s also amongst the worst fringe defenders in test rugby.

All of which puts heavy pressure on loosies and 12 to carry in close and on other tighties in the trenches.

Maybe with Chessum and Angry FR Lump to Be IDed Borthwick could afford to start Earl. It was madness to do so without them against the Boks. Should’ve gone with the biggest, meanest 8 in England with Undehill and C-S (who’s going to be a real weapon when he grows up.) then bring Earl on to run at tired players.

@NTA no doubt you were being hyperbolic to make your point. And there’s no question SA isn’t producing the quality of refs it did but after Watson we gave the world the underrated Mark Lawrence and the best ref of the early pro era: Kaplan.

You’ve also ignored Craig Joubert, who was superb whatever the Whinging Scots and bitter French bleat. I’m biased: in his teens he reffed me all the way up from u14C to Firsts. But in my personal rugby six degrees of separation I’m prouder of being part of his journey than the small part I played in Skinstad, Butch James or Danie Rossouw’s.

Listing these officials reminds me that SA’s loss of rugby capital over the last few decades has been immense. Kaplan should be mentoring young SA refs and reffing schoolboy derbies - instead he emigrated to Canada. Last I heard he was running the MLR officials.

@stodders said in All Blacks v France:

@booboo anyone called Goliath?

Poor, frustrated Bathsheba always left dripping like a fucked fridge

Getting whiplash reading along and watching with French commentary

This England team reminds me of the boks under Coetzee.

Confused strategy, cowardly, dimwitted selection all compounded by a lack of joy. They really don’t seem to be having fun - relishing the chance to play in an England shirt in front of their countrymen. Perhaps all the back room departures is colouring my impression. But I doubt it.

They had the World Champs by the throat at the half - you woulda thought they’d have come out of the changerooms breathing fire. But they didn’t. In fact, every big moment it was the boks who showed more intensity and passion.

As the ref gilt edged the chances gifted by Bok inaccuracy, it was the boks who got fired up. England, almost disdainful of their desperate fans’ urging, were more interested in begging the ref for yet more help.

All of this was exemplified two minutes from time. Needing two scores they turned the ball over in their 22 and kicked it out. @Dodge & @Catogrande please tell your wives that there are bunch of internet strangers who say that you were well within your rights to throw your teacups through the tv.

Something is very rotten in the State of Borthwick.

@MajorRage poor or cynical?

@booboo said in England vs Springboks:

@Smuts said in England vs Springboks:

@reprobate counterpoint: that semi was the best game of the World Cup.

Huh?

I’m a purist. Also the best in game tactical adaptation ever. And scrums.

@Bones it’s made me laugh like a loon with all the back patting about how robust Ireland’s rugby development machine is. Unstoppable to be sure, to be sure

@MiketheSnow said in Scotland vs Springboks:

@MN5 said in Scotland vs Springboks:

@mariner4life said in Scotland vs Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in Scotland vs Springboks:

Dalziel is fucking dreaming

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c78dvdl3r2no

oh Mike i dunno, all they need to do is import like 4-5 more good players from a real rugby nation and they might be able to progress from the Group Stage of a world cup.

Ha @MiketheSnow

#tenlossesinarow

The fact that Wales is on a 10 match losing streak doesn’t deflect from the fact that Dalziel is deluded

Nice try though

Gives me an idea for the Celts: a State of Origin round robin - play each other without imports.

Then we can see whose rugby ecosystem is really in the shitter.

@mariner4life och aye, but it gets us a whole extra over optimistic fan base to buy cheap semi and finals tickets from