The Silver Fern

Reckon the Chiefs are going to do it this year unfortunately. Crusaders too green in the pivot positions and it is the Chiefs strong point. There are going to be some insufferable, unfashionable fans with cowbells this year.

Yahoo! The darkness from the north has been repelled. But only just.
Pat.T is the heart and soul of that Blues pack. Papalii 's physical influence is also obvious. Certain ABs for me.
Clark seems disinterested; is there something going on there? To be honest, with BB and Christie calling the shots, I thought the Blues had a big advantage over the inexperienced Crusaders duo, but the good guys won the day.
For the Crusaders, EB, CLW, Jordan, and Havili went well. Codie didn't have a game to remember, but his influence for the Crusader's pack is Blues-Pat.T-like.

@Windows97 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:

@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:

@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:

@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:

@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:

Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks

Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.

As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.

He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.

It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.

Set game plan, pick accordingly.

The problem is our high-temp game seems to be to pick "quick and busy" loose forwards so we can win the race to the breakdown (hence our love of 7.5's) but that detracts from our ability to carry the ball into contact with heavy runners hence we endlessly recycle the ball going sideways across the field if we encounter stout defence and then our playmakers give away possession with a stupid kick or hail Mary pass.

If we don't get go-forward our back up or play or territory plays are quite simply stupid and fustrating, pull the forwards together and pick and go, or slow things down, set a chase line and kick and chase a contestable kick but more than often we hail mary, silly chip kick, or put up a high ball with only 1 person chasing or contesting....

The above has been my endless fustration with the AB team for years, as it was under Fozzie and now as it is under Razor, nothing really appers to have changed.

More often than not, there is one player who continually does this, and he keeps getting picked and praised by the coaches.

Shittings! He was my favorite player as a kid even though he played for the evil Wellington. Remember sitting in the stands in Carisbrook cheering him over the line (against Scotland I think(?)) after my dad and I had eaten lunch in the same Chinese restaurant as the All Black team by chance. Absolute heaven!

Lio-Willie has been the most consistent performer at 8. Both sides of the ball

Canes outmuscled up front and battered out of the season. Didn't see that happening because I thought the pack had developed a bit of starch. Although Slipper won't be making any world 15 lists, he really is a warrior. Much respect.

After watching Blackadder's performance last night, I was wondering what kind of mental gymnastics people would perform in order to criticise his play. I have not been disappointed.

@antipodean said in QF Crusaders v Reds:

@SammyC said in QF Crusaders v Reds:

4 degrees, freezing rain, a comfortable win and you dickheads are criticising the wingers
They showed plenty of wide shots….., the game plan was for them to stay wide and deep and diffuse the reds kicking game. Which they did very well

“Looking for work” would risk being out of position in a game where field position won us the match

On attack you mental midget.

Really? That is an arse comment.

Who do you think will win?
Crusaders v Reds - Reds for a historic win. There is too much talk about an inevitable Crusaders win. I am jinxing the jinx with this prediction.
Chiefs v Blues - Chiefs by a thousand
Brumbies v Hurricanes - Canes because I reckon they have better individuals than the Bum-boys, but they'll have to overcome the biased coverage, (expect multiple replays of Canes indiscretions) , an under pressure ref (to give the Bum-boys preference) and a crowd that is the most feral in the world of rugby. Reference 2023 game for how hard to win in the shithole (disallowed try, etc).
Who do you want to win?
Crusaders
Chiefs
Canes

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:

Spend three years away, come back for the world cup. Absolutely get fucked.

100% agree, no one should ever be an automatic selection after being away that long playing micky mouse rugby in Japan.

Especially having played in one of the ABs least successful eras.

My starting backline:
Roigard
McKenzie
Clark
Barrett
Proctor
Ioane
Jordan.

Would like to see Rieko at 14. NZ's premier attacking back with sound defense. Too good to leave out but add Proctor at 13 for distribution and Mr Fixit. That young French 11 especially (if he is coming) looks nasty to defend against. It would feel better if someone with experience and gas was opposing him.

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:

I love to see Beaudy dropped for Ruben Love as the second 10-15.

Beaudy isn't going to make it to 2027 and be any good. So what is Razor waiting for?

What was Foster waiting for as well? The decline has been long and gradual.

Also probably one of the few who could keep up with that feisty young French winger bastard..

I know this has been dismissed by some but with Proctor the best 13 by a country mile, what is stopping Reiko from being on the wing? He still would be one of NZs premier attack weapons and has much-needed experience. I can't see the downsides.

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

For all this talk about loose forwards, people seem to be either ignorant or forgetful about our best loose forward trio in modern times. Kaino, McCaw and Read. From 2010–2015 they were just on another level culminating in two RWC wins, an undefeated season, and they bossed almost every Test they played.

How did they achieve this? With balance across the park but not just covering the others' "weakness". The GOAT was a tireless tackler, hit rucks disrupting and slowing down opposition ball he couldn't thieve. Kaino set the tone physically, but also had underrated hands and footwork - he wasn't just a battering ram. And Read possessed a great skillset, awesome in support, and could absolutely smoke blokes in defence when needed.

Between the three of them they stood 5.76 metres tall.

People attempting to argue we should run out loose forward trios with no players taller than the shortest of the above are on the far left of the bell curve.

It's Test rugby and we need to identify players that have the attributes to play effectively at that level, not audition for a SR barbarians game highlight reel.

You're right re size.
There is a bit of a trap there though, in that we don't have clones of those greats, and you end up trying to shoehorn blokes with different talents into roles which don't suit them. It's important to remember that there are different ways to play the game and the game is played with the players you've got, not the players you wish you had.
Which one of those 3 is Ardie? He doesn't make the number of tackles or hit anywhere near the rucks of McCaw.
We have a couple of guys who are Kaino-like in Finau and Parker, but are not near as good at this stage - and also not as good as other contenders who don't play like Kaino - and they won't be playing alongside McCaw and Read.
Who do we have who plays like Read? A first rate lineout forward who can run and handle with the backs and also smash blokes.

These guys, while greats, weren't perfect either. McCaw was not a great ball runner and did not have great hands. Read was not a workrate player, he was a high impact player. And they had our best ever locking combo in front of them.

As much as people on here will hate it, I think the option might be stack the tight forwards with power players Samisoni, Tosi, Tuipolotou, and add a workrate loosie in EB/LJ/DP to the Savea/Sititi combo.
The other way would be to go workrate tighties: Newell, Taylor, Holland, with Finau/Parker.
The third way would be to go fuck it, we're going to play to our strengths - stay with us if you can - and pick Savea/Sititi/Sotutu with the workrate tighties to start and the impact ones on the bench. There's no team who could match that trio in skill-set. I'd love to see it, but Razor seems pretty conservative to me though, so it'll probably be some shitty halfway house between the first two.

I'm less concerned with who as to what. I believe that we need to determine which players have certain attributes that align with what McCaw, Kaino and Read brought as a trio and seek the players the best replicate that skillset. So that doesn't mean our number 8 has to be a Read, but somewhere in that trio Read's skillset is catered for.

Our tighties should be doing power work anyway, so it's not acceptable to me to suggest 80% of them should concentrate on that as an excuse to roll out a midget backrow as some are calling for. A SSL backrow is going to only look good against the likes of Japan.

And there's little opportunity to have a paradigm shift in running the opposition off their feet. It's not the early 2000's - the top five ranked Test teams are fit, and use the bench competently the vast majority of the time.

I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.

Unfortunately I agree, and it's not clear to me exactly what they're trying to achieve based on their selections last year.

But then I'm not a rugby savant...

They are trying to go back to the style we had between 2019 and mid 2022. Lots of width, and trying to run them off their feet. I thought we clearly improved from mid 2022 when we narrowed the attack and Joe Schmidt simplified things.

They seem to be trying to replicate the Crusaders style of play in the test arena.

What? Like depend on your set piece, play pragmatically, defense-oriented, etc. Jeez, I don't know what Crusaders you are talking about. Blackadder coached era?

Well, ... the Clan always lose dramatically with some crazy dumb shit. They never fail to deliver.

Shittings

OK Clan, no more dumb shit please.

Proctor is all class.