The Silver Fern

For the record: I'm supporting you guys.

just threw up in my mouth a little

Wow. Just when you thought everyone had the complacency knocked out of them, Ireland Schmidt the bed.

I understand those wanting to defend S Barrett. He's been good this year and mostly shelved the brain farts.

But that dive into the ruck - which was already decided mind you, and on which he would have zero effect - with a leading shoulder was the pinnacle of fucking idiocy

@Frank said in RWC: Japan v Ireland (Pool A):

Schmidt is on to "Hometown."

Ireland are usually the most disciplined team on the pitch but they came out on the wrong end of a 9-6 penalty count, with Schmidt hinting at some frustrations at referee Angus Gardner – who the Ireland head coach had curiously decided to criticise as recently as Thursday.

“We’ll go back and have a look at it,” said Schmidt. “I certainly understand the frustrations of some of the players and in discussing things with them based on what I saw on the monitor, it’s not too dissimilar from the last time we had this referee.

Murray Kinsella  /  Sep 28, 2019

Another dismal day for Ireland at the World Cup as Schmidt's side crumble

The Ireland head coach was most frustrated by his side’s inability to push on from a 12-3 lead.

"Our brand of cynical bullshit finally got called on us. It happened with this referee last time but we were too stupid/arrogant/complacent to understand and rectify this either in our preparation, or during the game"

@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:

@NTA As a neutral are we overreacting or were we really that shit?

I can't speak for all of you as a collective but some of you may be egging it a bit too much in terms of this game being a disaster beyond all disasters. The fact is, this has happened before (RWC2019 SF) and will happen again.

EDIT: I mean in terms of this being rugby. You have to accept losses. Just makes it hard for you bastards you only lose occasionally.

Argentina won the way you always beat the All Blacks: minimise your errors, make your tackles, and don't take any shit at set piece.

I've said it a few times the last month, but I think as fans you guys occasionally get carried away with the freakish skills some of your guys possess, and think that is the difference i.e. that they're just better as a group than everyone. Really, its just that the fifteen individuals you put on the park at one time (fourteen is S Barrett is playing ;)) are probably better players than the other blokes, but what is that saying about Champion Team versus Champion Individuals? Doesn't always work.

@mariner4life - in the same period - has pointed out a few times that when under the pump, the ABs haven't really looked that special. Nothing more than good even in Sydney - it was either dinky kicks breaking things open for you + counterattack (26-0 at halftime), or getting whacked (first part of the second half).

I count one set piece try in the period - and that was a 5 metre scrum where our flanker didn't get off in time at ANZ, leaving the wing stranded.

That has been the AB game plan since Henry / McCaw left: defend, counterattack, and (occasionally) pull off your skills and fitness, complemented occasionally by the odd piece of streaky bullshit. And I'm not saying those skills and fitness aren't great, because the winning record over the last decade speaks for itself.

BUT these skills and fitness aren't really built around any structure besides "You're the Fucking All Blacks, go out and win".

Looking at the last few weeks, maybe the depth isn't as good as everyone thinks. I'll talk about the tight five, because that's my jam.

Big concern for the Wallabies was second row in particular, but we generally stood up physically with Philip, LSL, and even Simmons. On the flipside, guys like Tuipolotou have not shown up with consistency. Whitelock is still a stalwart but looked a helluva lot better with BBBR (as would any of us!)

Your props are fine around the park but getting a bit of a lesson at scrum time, as a collective - that also comes back to your second row being a little frail. The combination there is important, and what stands out is you're not learning on the run. A couple of times the Wallabies put the ABs under pressure and you didn't adjust.

Must say that Coles is a fuckwit who throws his toys when he's not allowed to just swan around on the wing while everyone else does the hard yards (like Codie Taylor).

The backs are going through the motions, and look it isn't park footy and you can't always have a highly structured plan, but "play what's in front of you" has dangers of its own, especially when half the backline changes in the space of 2 weeks from A to B and back again.

Maybe making 9+ changes two weeks in a row wasn't the right decision. Maybe the selections and combinations are just wrong.

Regardless, you haven't really moved the needle in close to a decade, tactically speaking. It makes the ABs an easy target for coaches to plan for: front up physically, don't miss your tackles, and don't give away cheap ball. Of course, that relies on players executing and the Wallabies continue to be plagued by inconsistency.

Contrast Brisbane and Wellington versus ANZ and Auckland from a Wallabies point of view. Chalk and cheese in terms of execution.

The most burning example of this was Caleb Clarke: breaks 8 tackles on his way to setting up a try in Auckland, but was well looked after tonight. Simple game, really.

I've played suburban rugby in Sydney.

Every fucking Kiwi I played with or against was an All Blacks trialist.

Just ask them.

@geebee said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

@NTA nah its true,and remind me where you are from and why you are here please?

Australian. Long time contributor here, and I've had my share of disagreements with these kiwi bastards but I'm not about to spout fuckwit statements like "not world champs to me".

Wind your neck in, you've got school tomorrow

Watched the game this afternoon.

First point to get out of the way: the bitching and fucking moaning from everyone. Pearce has the patience of a saint. I'd have been carding people left, right, and centre for some of that shit. Sexton was the worst (and yes Dane, he is a mouthy fluffybunny, you mouthy fluffybunny) but several on both sides weren't far behind.

The Ref: I saw a few things that went against the ABs early I thought were a bit rough but they didn't make a difference to the result IMHO; none of them were unrecoverable.

The game: Ireland won through intensity, accuracy, and cohesion. A lot of these guys have spent a lot of time together, and it shows.

The All Blacks' constant rotation shows in the lack of connection between a lot of players. Losing Beaugan early was a bit of a blow but all he'd done to that point was kick badly. Mo'unga continued the trend.

That was the story of the AB possession stats: kicking what little ball they had without purpose. The worst part was they'd do that around halfway, but inside their 22 they're taking dumb shit taps. Looked panicked and rudderless.

Some genuine stupidity in hitting Sexton late a couple of times, and TBH Blackadder was lucky not to escape harsher sanction; the ref was well within his right to explain to Whitelock that it was a clear professional foul and it had to stop, therefore yellow card was the lesson. There was a later one from Lomax on an Irish reserve which was just petty and stupid. Again: ref would have been well within his rights to go harder on that given repeat offences.

Foster must have a fucking airtight keg of powder in a secret volcano lair, that he's keeping dry for RWC2023, because the same basic, through-the-hands attack line happens again and again and again. No subtlety. No work off the ball. It is great when it is Aussie falling off tackles, making Akira Ioane look like a superstar, but looks utterly amateur when it is someone who doesn't miss very much.

The AB defence is built off waiting for a turnover (big de ja vu moment here as I type this), but they got fuck all in that department and so the rest of the plan - just score more points when the other side fuck up - fell to shit.

AB defence was outstanding in terms of tackle percentage BUT it was all down the wrong end. And add in that Ireland pick and choose their moment to go into contact that stands out, using their hands to create yards post-breakdown. The ruck is accurate and quick. The backline has bodies in motion, all players across the squad, with hands dropping the ball short and/or in behind to sweeping backline moves with varying depth, pace, and angle. Beautiful to watch, and similar to Scotland.

This isn't just the Wales-under-Gatland 2 dummy runners with a ball out the back that won a couple of 6N because NH sides didn't do back play back then. It is ambition and shows the work and planning to get that execution right when they're in their green zone - centre field - with what looks like no set ruck count like some over-engineered plans.

The Kiwi imports helped turn the screws. Lowe was great. The halfback was awesome. It shows the depth NZ is gifting to the world, but these guys played far better than their opposites.

Ringrose was the best on ground for me - always threatened, always hard to put away. Made the right decisions, stretched the defence.

But fucking hell their forwards put in some work. Utterly bitched the AB pack who looked like they'd just met in the carpark, and forgot to tell their backrow they were required for 80 minutes besides.

I'm not saying Whitelock and Retallick are a spent force, but you look at their effect on a game and think their best years are behind them besides pushing at scrum. Laulala is so hit and miss. Taylor is the guy you want to grind out the first 60 and then bring Coles on to be a niggly fluffybunny for 20. Moody needs to improve.

To me it was a great game to watch, and the right team won by at least the correct margin.

@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:

"So, a tough learning curve for this group at the moment.''

• Ian Foster since 2019.

Foster's learning curve:

@mariner4life said in RWC Week 2: All Blacks v Namibia:

The TMO can get entirely fucked taking that maul try off

It's always funny when you see the next maul - nowhere near the try line - allowed to continue in exactly the same manner.

And not "ha-ha" funny

@duluth said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:

Anyone picking the Aussies?

I'd like to go to the game, but I'll probably be on the couch, recovering after too many minutes at hooker for both grades on Saturday.

Hopefully survive the 2nd Grade match in order to run on for First Grade in what would be my 100th game at the club.

Only taken 15 years...

My boss at work is a leaguie, and his comment was "If you send a guy off for an attempted intercept, your game is fucked"

@dogmeat said in 2018 Football World Cup:

So how bad must Saudi be?

Some post-match thoughts based off some halftime thoughts I put elsewhere:

Losing Sinckler early did hurt the Poms in the close channels. Not the scrum tho, oh no. In any case, a situation like this is both a strength and weakness of an EJ game plan: he finds the right guys for the roles from the available talent, builds that game plan, and then it suddenly can't be adjusted on the fly.

Pommy handling looked ordinary early on, because they weren't settling into the game - like the ABs last week. Needed some phases, a bit of structure, set a few rucks to get the rhythm of the defence but also their own attack.

I can't remember the commentators calling Tuilagi, Daly, Watson, or May once in the first half. This is a result of their forwards not keeping the ball, and being in the right areas to do it.

On the scrum: I am still not sure why Itoje starts at TH lock in that team. Lawes is slightly bigger and should have been working on a spot as starting behind Sinckler for some time now, because that is where the English scrum fell apart.

The English scrum builds its reputation on big grunt and cohesion, not necessarily tactical nous. Having a dirty great pair of donkeys in the second row helps any prop, but Cole and Marler have seen the wrong side of refs in the recent past for not packing straight, even against those packs perceived as weaker (e.g. Wallabies). Last night he got a poor effort from Itoje in the second row, and you could see this either side of halftime when the Boks had the feed:

i) Before the break, Itoje at TH lock and the scrum bends behind Cole
ii) After the break, Itoje at LH lock (Kruis came on at the half for Lawes) and Vunipola got folded

The interesting bit for me - and the lesson for EJ and Mitchell - was the next 2 scrums where the Boks (despite replacing both props around 44 minutes) got ascendancy again on their own ball BUT Marler came on and on England ball, they set much better then chose their moment to drive.

Overall, I thought Itoje had a poor game BUT this is what happens when you're not getting an armchair ride from the rest of your forward pack. I think he should really be blindside flanker for England where his speed and size are better suited.

And yes I know I've just spent a fair few bytes talking Itoje, but really nothing compared to the boner that English Rugby have for him.

After that couple of scrums, things settled back down to where the Saffers had the upper hand. This happens sometimes when you've just finished belting one prop and they bring a new one on - Koch didn't adjust for Marler or the improved drive of Kruis off England ball. Its important to note that since they change the hooking law back to the old-school method, winning your ball seems harder for a lot of sides, but once it is under the second row, the battle is all about timing of the shove, and England did it poorly without the ball and occasionally well, with.

There was that period midway through the first period where England strung together multiple phases and started to look good BUT, like England teams of yore, they got into a muddle once the missing part (Sinckler) didn't give them the go-forward they needed.

Changing gears: the contrast of performance for Pollard between the Wales and England games caught my eye. Very passive against Wales - wasn't even chasing his own kicks because they had a winger to put everyone onside. Last night he was much more active in chasing kicks, attacking the line, and getting involved around the ruck including some good tackling. Was he in cotton wool against the Welsh, then told to go for broke? Dunno but I think it was a little surprising to the England backs to have Pollard - who is a solid unit - suddenly in their faces. Looked like one of the tweaks Rassie made to "win" a final rather than "not lose" a semifinal.

English back three a bit lacking under the high ball. Lot of cheap turnover right there and must say they're much better on attack, which didn't fire last night.

Last thing for now: Cheslin. Fucking. Kolbe. Yeah sure the try was amazing but even better was the way he knocked Courtney Lawes over - difference of 30cm and 35kg, mind - every time the Poms ran the big unit at him. It happened about 4-5 times by my count, and was a clear tactic for the blindside to try and isolate him. Only one time did the little bloke not complete the tackle, but still cleaned him up for someone else to attack the ball.

But seriously: if you need to be validated by an Aussie (jeers and hooting from the gallery):

I think it is a fantastic achievement, and a reflection on NZ Cricket's ability to keep together a group of world-class players for a long period. Champion team vs team of champions etc.

Does it make up for the howler at the last CWC in Pommyland? It does not. Neither is it "justice" for that hideous mistake.

But is is well deserved and proved that the Black Caps are a better England than England are with the Duke ball. To get the victory despite the delays shows a significant amount of class, and is a bit of a fuck-you to the Aus/Eng/Ind hegemony that threatened to make everyone else second-tier.

I'm sure there are a bunch of Indian fans out there piping up with a bloody-fuckyou-play-us-on-a-dustbowl with 11 spinners and a bunch of crowds cheering for every block, but they can get fucked.

Choice bro.

@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:

An Australian mate reckons you have 1 minute after a penalty to kick - is that a thing?

If you're kicking for goal, sure.

Otherwise, play the fucking game.

That article above was good reading.

I think obviously the current coaching team has to bear some of the blame - there is a lot of talent there and making it all point in the same direction is their fucking job, really. Not like basic skills are lacking.

However, I think in a way Steve Hansen got the golden spot, but was also part of the problem. He was given a very good core of hard-nosed players and just had to make sure things ticked along. IMHO during that time, a form of arrogance entered the AB culture (moreso at the player level, not the management) that was based on the fact that they were winning games simply by scoring more than the opposition.

Sounds obvious, but when your entire game plan is "Beaudy puts in a kick that bounces 40cm from touch then snaps back straight into his hands 5m laterally for him to score" you're going to struggle at some point. When you can recover a deficit simply by scoring a couple of quick tries off individual talent, it masks the defensive issues that may have forced you into that situation.

I equate it to the Wallabies around the turn of the century: when your back line is that fucking good, finding great props in a barely-contested scrum environment isn't a priority.

We can talk all we want about who has the better players, but who has the better team is more important in a team sport. Duh.

"We shouldn't lose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.

In summary, then.... well there are a few things that stand out:

1. Sam Cane is not up to it any more, so Matfield was right in questioning that during the week. Cane is still a fine super player, but the edge he had as a younger man appears to have dulled. I think perhaps there are other opensides in the team who are worth taking a punt on like Papali'i.

2. Game plan is not a game plan without "plan" in it. A few people have been banging this drum for a while, and the chickens have come home to roost: the simple logic of "we're just better than you" combined with "we can win a game off your mistakes" meant the rare losses were written off with a bad day at the office, or a red card, but really the Emperor has no clothes at this point. All that talent and no idea how to point it in the same direction.

3. NZRU Admin must be quietly shitting themselves as they sharpen the stilletos to plunge into Foster's back. They had their chance to eject him but decided to let him knife underlings. Very bad leadership from the back office. The clamours for Razor won't die down from this point, even should the ABs win next week. There are a few swords that could be fallen on in the board room.

4. Steve Hansen is the luckiest fluffybunny ever to coach the ABs.