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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Country can thrive, but won’t, because too many don’t want it to. It’s that simple.
An opinion.
I keep out of this board mostly as it is just polemic and even if you try to be open to both sides and ask for an opposing view supported by fact you get accused of having made your mind up.
Not attacking you or your comment but I'm not stupid enough to think that people's opinions aren't tainted. I actually like to hear both sides and make my own mind up. In this day and age that gets very difficult
Apologies, that posted sound more aggressive than it meant to.
I agree with your response entirely.
The point I’m making is that we will never know the true truth about Brexit. Is the economy down vs Europe since Brexit? Unequivocally, yes. Is it Brexits fault? Yes, and no.
In my view, it’s down more because of the pandemic. An underbelly of this country has been exposed. It has a very large, extremely lazy, sub section. They were lazy before, they got lazier under govt support snd they fight going back.
The thought of picking up the slack is non existent. Blame the govt, instead of working harder. Jobs are EVERYWHERE for the poor. Because people left after the pandemic and the Poms didn’t pick up the slack. They moaned, they whinged …. Then sat on their arses as the vacancies piled up. The media has ploughed so much negativity that ppl have lost faith, and the will, to improve.
It’s sad. Under a United country, it would thrive. Properly. But there are too many who would rather piss, whinge, moan than take advantage of the opportunities.
Back in the early part of this thread when debating/arguing sides this very outcome was predicted. I have worked in environments where it was Euro immigration doing most of the grunt work and on the rare occasions a local would try out they would be gone in hours as it was too hard (or easier not to work). Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of how this situation came about the decision to leave should have been made knowing and recognising the facts about the environment it was being made in. Instead the arguments for both sides were made based on passions rather than facts.
UK has never been a united country despite the name and that goes not only for nations within but areas/towns etc. The idea that everyone would pull together after a decision (especially such a contentious one) was hardly a good recipe. -
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
c. An underbelly of this country has been exposed. It has a very large, extremely lazy, sub section. They were lazy before, they got lazier under govt support snd they fight going back.
The thought of picking up the slack is non existent. Blame the govt, instead of working harder. Jobs are EVERYWHERE for the poor. Because people left after the pandemic and the Poms didn’t pick up the slack. They moaned, they whinged …. Then sat on their arses as the vacancies piled up. The media has ploughed so much negativity that ppl have lost faith, and the will, to improve.
It’s sad. Under a United country, it would thrive. Properly. But there are too many who would rather piss, whinge, moan than take advantage of the opportunities.your talking about nz right
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Country can thrive, but won’t, because too many don’t want it to. It’s that simple.
An opinion.
I keep out of this board mostly as it is just polemic and even if you try to be open to both sides and ask for an opposing view supported by fact you get accused of having made your mind up.
Not attacking you or your comment but I'm not stupid enough to think that people's opinions aren't tainted. I actually like to hear both sides and make my own mind up. In this day and age that gets very difficult
Apologies, that posted sound more aggressive than it meant to.
I agree with your response entirely.
The point I’m making is that we will never know the true truth about Brexit. Is the economy down vs Europe since Brexit? Unequivocally, yes. Is it Brexits fault? Yes, and no.
In my view, it’s down more because of the pandemic. An underbelly of this country has been exposed. It has a very large, extremely lazy, sub section. They were lazy before, they got lazier under govt support snd they fight going back.
The thought of picking up the slack is non existent. Blame the govt, instead of working harder. Jobs are EVERYWHERE for the poor. Because people left after the pandemic and the Poms didn’t pick up the slack. They moaned, they whinged …. Then sat on their arses as the vacancies piled up. The media has ploughed so much negativity that ppl have lost faith, and the will, to improve.
It’s sad. Under a United country, it would thrive. Properly. But there are too many who would rather piss, whinge, moan than take advantage of the opportunities.
Back in the early part of this thread when debating/arguing sides this very outcome was predicted. I have worked in environments where it was Euro immigration doing most of the grunt work and on the rare occasions a local would try out they would be gone in hours as it was too hard (or easier not to work). Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of how this situation came about the decision to leave should have been made knowing and recognising the facts about the environment it was being made in. Instead the arguments for both sides were made based on passions rather than facts.
UK has never been a united country despite the name and that goes not only for nations within but areas/towns etc. The idea that everyone would pull together after a decision (especially such a contentious one) was hardly a good recipe.Again, with respect, that is a lazy stereotype which is easy to apply.
I work for a Dutch org and the Brit’s are so far ahead of the Dutch it’s ridiculous. The tradesman we get in, the Brit’s are good, the Euros are hard working but cut corners. That’s the truth if what I see.
Yet, I read your post and knod along.
I believe the UK would be stronger in the EU as the leave crew would have accepted the result and worked to continue to make their lives better.
The reverse simply does not reply.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Country can thrive, but won’t, because too many don’t want it to. It’s that simple.
An opinion.
I keep out of this board mostly as it is just polemic and even if you try to be open to both sides and ask for an opposing view supported by fact you get accused of having made your mind up.
Not attacking you or your comment but I'm not stupid enough to think that people's opinions aren't tainted. I actually like to hear both sides and make my own mind up. In this day and age that gets very difficult
Apologies, that posted sound more aggressive than it meant to.
I agree with your response entirely.
The point I’m making is that we will never know the true truth about Brexit. Is the economy down vs Europe since Brexit? Unequivocally, yes. Is it Brexits fault? Yes, and no.
In my view, it’s down more because of the pandemic. An underbelly of this country has been exposed. It has a very large, extremely lazy, sub section. They were lazy before, they got lazier under govt support snd they fight going back.
The thought of picking up the slack is non existent. Blame the govt, instead of working harder. Jobs are EVERYWHERE for the poor. Because people left after the pandemic and the Poms didn’t pick up the slack. They moaned, they whinged …. Then sat on their arses as the vacancies piled up. The media has ploughed so much negativity that ppl have lost faith, and the will, to improve.
It’s sad. Under a United country, it would thrive. Properly. But there are too many who would rather piss, whinge, moan than take advantage of the opportunities.
Back in the early part of this thread when debating/arguing sides this very outcome was predicted. I have worked in environments where it was Euro immigration doing most of the grunt work and on the rare occasions a local would try out they would be gone in hours as it was too hard (or easier not to work). Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of how this situation came about the decision to leave should have been made knowing and recognising the facts about the environment it was being made in. Instead the arguments for both sides were made based on passions rather than facts.
UK has never been a united country despite the name and that goes not only for nations within but areas/towns etc. The idea that everyone would pull together after a decision (especially such a contentious one) was hardly a good recipe.Again, with respect, that is a lazy stereotype which is easy to apply.
I work for a Dutch org and the Brit’s are so far ahead of the Dutch it’s ridiculous. The tradesman we get in, the Brit’s are good, the Euros are hard working but cut corners. That’s the truth if what I see.
Yet, I read your post and knod along.
I believe the UK would be stronger in the EU as the leave crew would have accepted the result and worked to continue to make their lives better.
The reverse simply does not reply.
It wasn't a stereotype it was a real life example and observation (just as yours own) in the type of job that was previously filled by euro workers. The disincentive in coming off benefits to these low paying jobs is high for locals. Agree about trades. Plenty of cheap cowboy tradies around.
Until I see some upward trends or turnarounds it is looking like a failed ideology. Not saying the underlying concept or desires were wrong just that the practicalities were never going to work out. -
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Country can thrive, but won’t, because too many don’t want it to. It’s that simple.
An opinion.
I keep out of this board mostly as it is just polemic and even if you try to be open to both sides and ask for an opposing view supported by fact you get accused of having made your mind up.
Not attacking you or your comment but I'm not stupid enough to think that people's opinions aren't tainted. I actually like to hear both sides and make my own mind up. In this day and age that gets very difficult
Apologies, that posted sound more aggressive than it meant to.
I agree with your response entirely.
The point I’m making is that we will never know the true truth about Brexit. Is the economy down vs Europe since Brexit? Unequivocally, yes. Is it Brexits fault? Yes, and no.
In my view, it’s down more because of the pandemic. An underbelly of this country has been exposed. It has a very large, extremely lazy, sub section. They were lazy before, they got lazier under govt support snd they fight going back.
The thought of picking up the slack is non existent. Blame the govt, instead of working harder. Jobs are EVERYWHERE for the poor. Because people left after the pandemic and the Poms didn’t pick up the slack. They moaned, they whinged …. Then sat on their arses as the vacancies piled up. The media has ploughed so much negativity that ppl have lost faith, and the will, to improve.
It’s sad. Under a United country, it would thrive. Properly. But there are too many who would rather piss, whinge, moan than take advantage of the opportunities.
Back in the early part of this thread when debating/arguing sides this very outcome was predicted. I have worked in environments where it was Euro immigration doing most of the grunt work and on the rare occasions a local would try out they would be gone in hours as it was too hard (or easier not to work). Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of how this situation came about the decision to leave should have been made knowing and recognising the facts about the environment it was being made in. Instead the arguments for both sides were made based on passions rather than facts.
UK has never been a united country despite the name and that goes not only for nations within but areas/towns etc. The idea that everyone would pull together after a decision (especially such a contentious one) was hardly a good recipe.Again, with respect, that is a lazy stereotype which is easy to apply.
I work for a Dutch org and the Brit’s are so far ahead of the Dutch it’s ridiculous. The tradesman we get in, the Brit’s are good, the Euros are hard working but cut corners. That’s the truth if what I see.
Yet, I read your post and knod along.
I believe the UK would be stronger in the EU as the leave crew would have accepted the result and worked to continue to make their lives better.
The reverse simply does not reply.
It wasn't a stereotype it was a real life example and observation (just as yours own) in the type of job that was previously filled by euro workers. The disincentive in coming off benefits to these low paying jobs is high for locals. Agree about trades. Plenty of cheap cowboy tradies around.
Until I see some upward trends or turnarounds it is looking like a failed ideology. Not saying the underlying concept or desires were wrong just that the practicalities were never going to work out.The Civil Service blob can't be arsed to look into Euro inherited regulations which provide little societal benefit but stifle entrepreneurship.
And Boris was too lazy to care about the detail.
Apart from the overarching problem of the Brussels bureaucracy having substantial power, but being accountable to no one, the fact is that the EU is slipping back badly versus the rest of the world in GDP terms.
Being unbound offers the possibility of pursuing growth through a more commercial world view.
However, judging by how far that got Liz Truss I wouldn't bank on a UK political party to grasp the nettle, despite all the worthy rhetoric.
KBO.
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@Crucial I suspect it may be that the majority wanted, and still want, Brexit but they’re really pissed off at the Tories’ half-arsed handling of the aftermath. Get Brexit Done shouldn’t have finished with the legal separation but that’s how it has worked out because a lot of the Tory party are much more interested in the sport of shivving each other in the back than doing the hard work of implementing the changes needed to support an independent Britain.
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The commentary is fact based
Except it isn't. The first 30 seconds of the video states that "the UK is the only major economy which hasn't bounced back to it's pre-Covid size and the OBR forecasts the UK to have the sharpest (GDP) decline among European Nations in 2023 mainly due to Brexit" - which is complete and utter bollocks.
And I couldn't find a single OBR report which said that. There was one about trade not GDP. (I've quoted from a very pro-Remain newspaper)
I gave up after the video quoted a bloke from a pro-EU think tank claiming taxes would not need to rise if we had stayed in the EU.
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This post is deleted!
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Country can thrive, but won’t, because too many don’t want it to. It’s that simple.
An opinion.
I keep out of this board mostly as it is just polemic and even if you try to be open to both sides and ask for an opposing view supported by fact you get accused of having made your mind up.
Not attacking you or your comment but I'm not stupid enough to think that people's opinions aren't tainted. I actually like to hear both sides and make my own mind up. In this day and age that gets very difficult
Apologies, that posted sound more aggressive than it meant to.
I agree with your response entirely.
The point I’m making is that we will never know the true truth about Brexit. Is the economy down vs Europe since Brexit? Unequivocally, yes. Is it Brexits fault? Yes, and no.
In my view, it’s down more because of the pandemic. An underbelly of this country has been exposed. It has a very large, extremely lazy, sub section. They were lazy before, they got lazier under govt support snd they fight going back.
The thought of picking up the slack is non existent. Blame the govt, instead of working harder. Jobs are EVERYWHERE for the poor. Because people left after the pandemic and the Poms didn’t pick up the slack. They moaned, they whinged …. Then sat on their arses as the vacancies piled up. The media has ploughed so much negativity that ppl have lost faith, and the will, to improve.
It’s sad. Under a United country, it would thrive. Properly. But there are too many who would rather piss, whinge, moan than take advantage of the opportunities.
Back in the early part of this thread when debating/arguing sides this very outcome was predicted. I have worked in environments where it was Euro immigration doing most of the grunt work and on the rare occasions a local would try out they would be gone in hours as it was too hard (or easier not to work).
I think you've highlighted precisely one of the things which is badly wrong with the UK and why so many businesses supported Remain and advocate re-joining the EU.
Why bother about actually motivating your staff, increasing productivity and investing in people when it's so much easier to get cheaper labour from Eastern Europe and blame the locals for a poor work-ethic? And when the feckless, work-shy locals vote to leave the EU, it's so much easier to castigate them and call them names rather than understand their concerns rather than actually do the grunt work of getting the best out of your people. (That said, there are UK sectors with fantastic management - as @MajorRage has pointed).
For me, much of the Brexit debate is/was about making life easier for the wealthier sectors of the country rather than improving growth, productivity and maximising the potential of the whole of the UK. I voted Remain way back, but seeing the negative impact of EU membership in Cornwall (the poorest region of the UK) along with the antics of second referendum advocates, has changed my mind completely.
Brexit