Best Test XI - POLL - Opening Batsmen
-
@No-Quarter said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@rotated said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
Fleming. He opened enough to be legitimately a nominee and if looking at some of his bigger scores and you draw any sort of distinction between opening and batting first drop then you didn't watch a lot of NZ cricket at that time.
Ha was thinking this while drifting off in a work meeting this avo.....the amount of times Fleming found himself in the middle in the first couple of overs in any given test was a disgrace and a damning indictment on our openers
It's why Richardson got so much love when he came about. We finally had an opener that was willing to just dig the fuck in and take the shine off the new ball without a care given for whether he was scoring any runs.
just the four hundreds, none of them big either. But by crikey he did his job.
I think this is a four horse race between him, Sutcliffe, Turner and Rods son.
I can't pick Dempster, 10 tests just isn't enough.
-
I think we stopped being complete turkeys and a laughing stock in the '70's. A fair number of decent players came thru in that era who, while not world class, weren't far below it - Congdon, Bruce Taylor, Hastings, Hedley Howarth, etc.
-
@No-Quarter said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@rotated said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
Fleming. He opened enough to be legitimately a nominee and if looking at some of his bigger scores and you draw any sort of distinction between opening and batting first drop then you didn't watch a lot of NZ cricket at that time.
Ha was thinking this while drifting off in a work meeting this avo.....the amount of times Fleming found himself in the middle in the first couple of overs in any given test was a disgrace and a damning indictment on our openers
It's why Richardson got so much love when he came about. We finally had an opener that was willing to just dig the fuck in and take the shine off the new ball without a care given for whether he was scoring any runs.
One of my favourite Cricket TV moments was Botham banging on and on and on on how crap Rigour was in some England-NZ test or other and how NZ must have better players. He went on for hours.
Finally fellow commentator David Lloyd had had enough and simply said : "He's played 22 Tests and has an average of 46.....can't be that bad"
-
God i love Bumble
-
@mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
God i love Bumble
I always thought Bumble and Boycott were the same person til they showed him in the commentary box.....
-
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@No-Quarter said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@rotated said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
Fleming. He opened enough to be legitimately a nominee and if looking at some of his bigger scores and you draw any sort of distinction between opening and batting first drop then you didn't watch a lot of NZ cricket at that time.
Ha was thinking this while drifting off in a work meeting this avo.....the amount of times Fleming found himself in the middle in the first couple of overs in any given test was a disgrace and a damning indictment on our openers
It's why Richardson got so much love when he came about. We finally had an opener that was willing to just dig the fuck in and take the shine off the new ball without a care given for whether he was scoring any runs.
just the four hundreds, none of them big either. But by crikey he did his job.
I think this is a four horse race between him, Sutcliffe, Turner and Rods son.
I can't pick Dempster, 10 tests just isn't enough.
I'd happily include Wright in any voting list, his career was great by our standards. Not that Trevor Franklin is being considered (his personal career stats are pretty average), but Wright and Franklin are NZ's best opening partnership by the stats.
-
@Godder said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@No-Quarter said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@rotated said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
Fleming. He opened enough to be legitimately a nominee and if looking at some of his bigger scores and you draw any sort of distinction between opening and batting first drop then you didn't watch a lot of NZ cricket at that time.
Ha was thinking this while drifting off in a work meeting this avo.....the amount of times Fleming found himself in the middle in the first couple of overs in any given test was a disgrace and a damning indictment on our openers
It's why Richardson got so much love when he came about. We finally had an opener that was willing to just dig the fuck in and take the shine off the new ball without a care given for whether he was scoring any runs.
just the four hundreds, none of them big either. But by crikey he did his job.
I think this is a four horse race between him, Sutcliffe, Turner and Rods son.
I can't pick Dempster, 10 tests just isn't enough.
I'd happily include Wright in any voting list, his career was great by our standards. Not that Trevor Franklin is being considered (his personal career stats are pretty average), but Wright and Franklin are NZ's best opening partnership by the stats.
Wright was probably better than his average so deserves a mention.
Trevor Franklin had a test strike rate of 26.44. Even boring old Geoff Boycott had that beat comfortably with 39.8.
During the test in which Crowe got 299 Franklin managed 39 off 176 fucken balls !!!
-
@Godder said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
Wright and Franklin are NZ's best opening partnership by the stats.
Yeah, we aren't picking partnerships though, nor teams, nor captaincy skills, etc.
Best two openers. Still lots of variables. Who did they face? Longevity? Era? Tests at home?
I'm with Richardson and Latham, unless someone convinces me otherwise. Just did / do their primary role well, see off the new ball, wear out the bowlers. I can't comment how well the earlier guys did that - I didn't see them.
Might be due for the vote.
Bloody @gunner has buggered off to golf again and isn't adjudicating.
-
@Godder said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
I'd happily include Wright in any voting list, his career was great by our standards. Not that Trevor Franklin is being considered (his personal career stats are pretty average), but Wright and Franklin are NZ's best opening partnership by the stats.
I think there's a very good case for Wrighty to make the team.
People look at his career average of 37 and scoff, but like plenty of others he got away to a pretty bad start in tests and was probably only persisted with because there wasn't much else around. But as time went on he became better and better and extremely reliable.
Item 1: His reverse cumulative average.
Over his last 18 tests he averaged 55.4.
Over his last 38 tests (the same number as Rigor played), Wrighty averaged 45.05 (compared with Mark's 44.78), while also scoring 8 centuries, 14 fifties and I daresay at a markedly better clip.
Running Wrighty against Tom Latham (and I don't like to criticize Tom for doing exactly what I've criticized numerous NZ batsmen for failing to do), Tom has really plundered the weaker attacks - Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe especially. When you line him up against the top teams - Australia, India, South Africa and England, his average slides to about 28.
Conversely, Wright's average actually improves slightly when you run him against West Indies, Australia, India and England. I don't think Tom has anything like this on his CV....
-
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
God i love Bumble
I always thought Bumble and Boycott were the same person til they showed him in the commentary box.....
what? one is self deprecating and funny.
one is boring, arrogant and very old fashioned
-
@mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
God i love Bumble
I always thought Bumble and Boycott were the same person til they showed him in the commentary box.....
what? one is self deprecating and funny.
one is boring, arrogant and very old fashioned
Might be the voice or accent? One is from Lancashire and the other Yorkshire though...
-
@mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
God i love Bumble
I always thought Bumble and Boycott were the same person til they showed him in the commentary box.....
what? one is self deprecating and funny.
one is boring, arrogant and very old fashioned
I think it was the accent.....Boycott could be a real funny bugger according to himself though.
-
@Chris-B said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
@Godder said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Opening Batsmen:
I'd happily include Wright in any voting list, his career was great by our standards. Not that Trevor Franklin is being considered (his personal career stats are pretty average), but Wright and Franklin are NZ's best opening partnership by the stats.
I think there's a very good case for Wrighty to make the team.
People look at his career average of 37 and scoff, but like plenty of others he got away to a pretty bad start in tests and was probably only persisted with because there wasn't much else around. But as time went on he became better and better and extremely reliable.
Item 1: His reverse cumulative average.
Over his last 18 tests he averaged 55.4.
Over his last 38 tests (the same number as Rigor played), Wrighty averaged 45.05 (compared with Mark's 44.78), while also scoring 8 centuries, 14 fifties and I daresay at a markedly better clip.
Running Wrighty against Tom Latham (and I don't like to criticize Tom for doing exactly what I've criticized numerous NZ batsmen for failing to do), Tom has really plundered the weaker attacks - Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe especially. When you line him up against the top teams - Australia, India, South Africa and England, his average slides to about 28.
Conversely, Wright's average actually improves slightly when you run him against West Indies, Australia, India and England. I don't think Tom has anything like this on his CV....
A bad start indeed.
Out the very first ball he faced in Tests for a Royal Duck. Went on to make 55 ... no DRS in those days to keep a check on home town decisions.
-
Latham shouldn't be there. His test record is helped a lot by playing in a good team and by the opponents he gets to face. Turner averaged 65 against the West Indies attack!
I argue Sutcliffe deserves a spot too, although you could hold his lack of games opening against him. I would also rate Wright ahead of Latham, but not Richardson or Dempster.
-
Boycott seems to like the sound of his own voice a bit, but his analysis is brilliant at times. Also like the way he sticks up for players going thru a bad patch and is constructive in his criticism.
Bumble is pretty much spot-on with his analysis, he's also great fun. One of the best out there.
-
@MN5 said in Best Test XI - POLL - Opening Batsmen:
I think it was the accent.....Boycott could be a real funny bugger according to himself though.
There's a story i heard where a Oz fast bowler was sledging Boycott and warned him the next ball would be really, really fast. Said ball was delivered and Boycott played it fairly easily.
Bowler glares down the wicket, Boycott shouts out to him "Call that fast? My aunt Mimi bowls faster than that an' she 63 year old..."
-
@Victor-Meldrew Boycott has a reputation for avoiding the fast stuff. Based on running suicidal singles when batting against Lillian Thompson to get off strike and then making himself unavailable for test cricket for a few years.
Ignores the fact that he faced all the worlds best in county cricket.
-
@hydro11 I think Turner should be a shoo in. I compared Latham and Sutcliffe's career innings by innings. Latham hasn't padded his average as you suggest IMO. There's very little in it and Bert definitely played in weaker sides and probably should have retired a few years earlier but in the end I went for Latham but wouldn't be unhappy to see Sutcliffe walk out.
-
@dogmeat said in Best Test XI - POLL - Opening Batsmen:
@Victor-Meldrew Boycott has a reputation for avoiding the fast stuff. Based on running suicidal singles when batting against Lillian Thompson to get off strike and then making himself unavailable for test cricket for a few years.
Ignores the fact that he faced all the worlds best in county cricket.
Interesting to read this, I thought he doggedly faced all comers and despite being slow and a bit of a dick was regarded as one of the great all time opening batsmen ?
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
