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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder pretty damning that after 18 months there has been no real increase in ICU capacity.
I see the aussies have been poaching nurses from other countries. A good short term measure we could have done while we put resources into training more ICU staff.
This, and the botched vaccine rollout, is two main things a government can do handle a pandemic that they have fucked up.
The money was available for DHBs, they just didn't spend it - in the budget documents (see page 132) there is $37,195,000 carried forward from 2019/20 to 2020/21 for purchasing additional ventilated and non-ventilated ICU capacity.
Fuck knows why the DHBs didn't spend it, but they can't legally be forced to, and even if DHBs agree to something, if they later renege, governmental options are limited. No wonder they are being given the boot. Also, staffing of hospitals is a DHB responsibility, so again, they can be offered money, but can't be made to spend it.
There's still a question to be answered here though - if ICU capacity is significantly expanded, what services are being removed to make room for them? ICU takes up a lot of space in a hospital, and it's not just a matter of squeezing an extra bed or two into current wards - this is the equivalent of adding a whole new ward to a full space. It's not like hospitals actually have spare wards or services that could easily be permanently relocated because usually that was done years ago because it was cheaper than building a new hospital. What ward is being removed?
Nothing here is an unsolvable problem. Governments can act quickly when they want to, temporary powers to create a centralised pandemic hospital for example.
Plan to run it separately for the duration of the crisis and merge it back into the system over time. Field hospitals from the army, am sure others will come up other ideas too. Think outside the box to staff it.
This is either an emergency or it isn’t.
When this started 18 freaking months ago, the idea was to avoid overwhelming hospital capacity. Somewhere during that first lockdown they decided to switch to eliminating instead and this seems to have stopped any effort into increasing our capacity.
To be honest, your post sounds like excuse making. We have been failed.
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@booboo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life I Mean they could throw a couple of billion at Health, that would be the equivalent of 2 weeks in L4...but getting the equipment and trained personell in the same period, or even a few months...
I think the best we can hope is we keep ticking along with cases coming in as they are, but not spiralling out of control...
In some ways, I guess NZ is in a better position than most other countries right now with the level of vaccination compared to when other countries got Delta outbreaks, so hopefully that will mitigate the rapid spread and hospitalisation somewhat.
Equipment was probably doable, if started in March 2020.
Staff?
Poach from overseas, fast track candidates with experience, use junior doctors. Handle a peak while you train for a more permanent approach.
There has to be a will to do something. These guys won’t even pay the nurses we have a decent rate and we lose them to Oz.
Put the pay up and use supply and demand.
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@booboo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan Is it that simple though? Did you see this? The kaumatua in Murupara are saying that as a community they have made a conscious decision not to get vaccinated because they are waiting for a better one. I’m sorry but this is simply ignorance and it’s being indulged by the government n and the DOH at the expense of fully vaccinated Aucklanders who can’t live their lives.
I had a more violent reaction to that article, as I posted above. You're right in that it is ignorance - but it is also utter arrogance. The idea that this community gets to select the best vaccine (in their educated view) globally, then demand the Govt procure, fund, deliver, and administer said vaccine to them, is absolutely outrageous.
See above comment. Don't want to vaccinate, what excuse can we come up with?
Say, hypothetically, Cindy personally delivers "the best vaccine in the world", firstly what is that? Secondly do you not expect the same idiots to come up with some other excuse not to be jabbed?
Casi in point
Goudie says she’s waiting for the Novavax vaccine to become available in New Zealand, but when pushed, won’t commit to taking that, either.
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@godder You’re no doubt right but that’s still not a reasonable excuse. This government has had no problem passing law under urgency for any number of things, but they can’t for this?
Let’s be honest back as recently as April this year the Prime Minister - who seems to be running the entire campaign when things are going well but none of it when they aren’t - was telling us that vaccinations weren’t a priority because we didn’t have community tranmission and others needed it more. Now we’ve got some serious revisionism - if not straight out gaslighting - going on, telling us that the vaccination strategy started early.
It’s not much of a logical leap to consider that if they thought they were smart enough to not need vaccinations then they wouldn’t need any additional ICU capacity either, after all we didn’t have any community transmission.
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@kirwan and there will be losses of staff form Health & Education with the mandates, however, I dont think these people will be able to flee to Aus anymore?
Think of no L4, 1 billion this week 'saved' use that to get trained staff to NZ.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan and there will be losses of staff form Health & Education with the mandates, however, I dont think these people will be able to flee to Aus anymore?
Think of no L4, 1 billion this week 'saved' use that to get trained staff to NZ.
Yep, if you are going to spend 1 billion dollars friviously, spend on it on our health system. Will have benefits for after the pandemic.
As for the job losses from the madates, that does butt up against my values of personal responsibility and freedom. But I can't help thinking that people leaving in health care that refuse vaccines is a good thing, because how good at their job can they be if they don't udnerstand 3rd form science?
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You guys seen the Truman show?
Remember the scene where he goes to the travel agent and the crashing plane is on the wall?
Well here’s today’s herald. See the first story …. Then see the second. Heads up, rising cases here is a) expected and b) not one of the top 5 news stories here.
You guys are being manipulated by Cindy and her mouthpiece, the herald. Absolutely no way should that story be number 2 on the herald. No way. The article itself is completely free of context and is full of inaccurate bullshit.
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I know this is UK but an interesting article with some stats around where we may be heading.
So cases high but hospitalisations relatively low.Relativity is the key difference for us though. They had massive hospitalisations which have dropped but we have low hospitalisations which we assume will increase.
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@bovidae said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Goudie is a nutter who seems to be a climate change denier too despite representing Coromandel.
Yep, not surprising that a mediocre MP has turned to to be just as plodding in local government.
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You guys are being manipulated by Cindy and her mouthpiece, the herald.
While I get the wider point, I think (hope) most are generally aware that the Ferald isn't even the digital equivalent of fish and chip wrapping. They run opposing headlines without irony on almost a daily basis, and are tabloid quality all of the time.
I miss the days when they had some quality to them...
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@majorrage doh - The Herald ...
Plenty of news sites are asking the government awkward questions.
source: Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
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These boundaries are fucking stupid. I've had two ten tonne diggers sitting on my property doing nothing for over a week. I can see where the drivers live from my place but they aren't allowed to come and work. Father and son team who will be in contact with no one, both double jabbed.
A team of builders who can't do a thing because the piles aren't in place.
Materials to build all sorted. Just the fucking stupid boundary that is making it all go wrong. Idiotic government. They are supposed to be essential workers but can't come and and work on an 11 hectare property within their own bubble? All they see is some alpacas, ducks, geese, and chooks but they aren't allowed over over some imaginary line that the powers that be think covid won't cross. It's just so stupid it defies belief.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
These boundaries are fucking stupid. I've had two ten tonne diggers sitting on my property doing nothing for over a week. I can see where the drivers live from my place but they aren't allowed to come and work. Father and son team who will be in contact with no one, both double jabbed.
A team of builders who can't do a thing because the piles aren't in place.
Materials to build all sorted. Just the fucking stupid boundary that is making it all go wrong. Idiotic government. They are supposed to be essential workers but can't come and and work on an 11 hectare property within their own bubble? All they see is some alpacas, ducks, geese, and chooks but they aren't allowed over over some imaginary line that the powers that be think covid won't cross. It's just so stupid it defies belief.
I won't tell if you won't. Can they just ignore it?
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You guys seen the Truman show?
Remember the scene where he goes to the travel agent and the crashing plane is on the wall?
Well here’s today’s herald. See the first story …. Then see the second. Heads up, rising cases here is a) expected and b) not one of the top 5 news stories here.
You guys are being manipulated by Cindy and her mouthpiece, the herald. Absolutely no way should that story be number 2 on the herald. No way. The article itself is completely free of context and is full of inaccurate bullshit.
The term "expert" gets thrown around with abandon when it comes to covid. The one thing I can consistently count on is their prognostications are wrong.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage doh - The Herald ...
source: Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
That's great global context, I just checked Our World In Data and ... it parallels
France have done amazingly well as they have (had) high percentages resistant to vaccines.
From a quick calculation, UK can push up to about 70% at most with the program to vaccinate 12-15 years olds, not much more I feel.
Anything above 70% of total population in a Western democracy seems good. 75% excellent. Portugal is fricken amazing tbh, they must have found some way to administer it in the vino ...
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
These boundaries are fucking stupid. I've had two ten tonne diggers sitting on my property doing nothing for over a week. I can see where the drivers live from my place but they aren't allowed to come and work. Father and son team who will be in contact with no one, both double jabbed.
A team of builders who can't do a thing because the piles aren't in place.
Materials to build all sorted. Just the fucking stupid boundary that is making it all go wrong. Idiotic government. They are supposed to be essential workers but can't come and and work on an 11 hectare property within their own bubble? All they see is some alpacas, ducks, geese, and chooks but they aren't allowed over over some imaginary line that the powers that be think covid won't cross. It's just so stupid it defies belief.
I won't tell if you won't. Can they just ignore it?
I have asked but they got stopped and sent back. So the whole exemption thing now.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
These boundaries are fucking stupid. I've had two ten tonne diggers sitting on my property doing nothing for over a week. I can see where the drivers live from my place but they aren't allowed to come and work. Father and son team who will be in contact with no one, both double jabbed.
A team of builders who can't do a thing because the piles aren't in place.
Materials to build all sorted. Just the fucking stupid boundary that is making it all go wrong. Idiotic government. They are supposed to be essential workers but can't come and and work on an 11 hectare property within their own bubble? All they see is some alpacas, ducks, geese, and chooks but they aren't allowed over over some imaginary line that the powers that be think covid won't cross. It's just so stupid it defies belief.
I won't tell if you won't. Can they just ignore it?
I have asked but they got stopped and sent back. So the whole exemption thing now.
downvote
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
These boundaries are fucking stupid. I've had two ten tonne diggers sitting on my property doing nothing for over a week. I can see where the drivers live from my place but they aren't allowed to come and work. Father and son team who will be in contact with no one, both double jabbed.
A team of builders who can't do a thing because the piles aren't in place.
Materials to build all sorted. Just the fucking stupid boundary that is making it all go wrong. Idiotic government. They are supposed to be essential workers but can't come and and work on an 11 hectare property within their own bubble? All they see is some alpacas, ducks, geese, and chooks but they aren't allowed over over some imaginary line that the powers that be think covid won't cross. It's just so stupid it defies belief.
I won't tell if you won't. Can they just ignore it?
I have asked but they got stopped and sent back. So the whole exemption thing now.
downvote
Yeah.
Coronavirus - New Zealand