Should the Crusaders change their name?
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@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC similar thoughts if ( when) a debate about changing the All Blacks name?
Just a musing question mate. Culture often runs on precedents
Any change should be driven by the franchise. I am sure the muslim community would not want the heat that comes with externally demanding change
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@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC similar thoughts if ( when) a debate about changing the All Blacks name?
Just a musing question mate. Culture often runs on precedents
Bit of tangent? But yes my point stands, I’ll support the New Zealand rugby team no matter what they are called.
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@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Inane to you maybe but so what if others think of it inappropriate? Should we all have the same train of thought around everything?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Jeez ......Stop trying to assign a position to me based on one word in my original post.
If you want an argument, then my position is as follows: I don't care if the name changes, the team and where it comes from is what is important. If the Crusaders change their name to appease even a small part of the local community then so be it.
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@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@dogmeat said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
as a by the by - they've already changed their name once
From Canterbury Crusaders? They forgot to tell the Aussies!
Nah, let them continue to think the team hails from the Sydney suburbs
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@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Jeez ......Stop trying to assign a position to me based on one word in my original post.
If you want an argument, then my position is as follows: I don't care if the name changes, the team and where it comes from is what is important. If the Crusaders change their name to appease even a small part of the local community then so be it.
Right from the start the entire name change discussion has triggered people who have no real stake in the franchise. Someone mentioned it got kicked off by a twitter post? I bet it wasn't from anyone connected with the team or the mosques. I think Sammy's position is very even. Whatever they name the franchise they will still be your team
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@dogmeat said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@canefan they couldn't be so foolish. The Crusaders win.
They probably worked it out because the unis are red and black, not blue and white. But SBW playing for them a couple of years might have created confusion
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@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Inane to you maybe but so what if others think of it inappropriate? Should we all have the same train of thought around everything?
Thats my point....... anyone can find anything offensive.
This will be the thin end of a wedge that will lead to very bad results.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Inane to you maybe but so what if others think of it inappropriate? Should we all have the same train of thought around everything?
Thats my point....... anyone can find anything offensive.
This will be the thin end of a wedge that will lead to very bad results.
For who? I think if, for the most, people are happy with change, then change. If it is a few that are unhappy with this, then too bad.
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@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Inane to you maybe but so what if others think of it inappropriate? Should we all have the same train of thought around everything?
Thats my point....... anyone can find anything offensive.
This will be the thin end of a wedge that will lead to very bad results.
For who? I think if, for the most, people are happy with change, then change. If it is a few that are unhappy with this, then too bad.
I agree with that. But this process isnt likely to work like that.
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@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC similar thoughts if ( when) a debate about changing the All Blacks name?
Just a musing question mate. Culture often runs on precedents
Bit of tangent? But yes my point stands, I’ll support the New Zealand rugby team no matter what they are called.
I’d struggle tbh with the NZ Wallabies.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12216943
Who's outraged? The Muslim community haven't said anything. Who are all these upset people?
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@canefan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
Who's outraged? The Muslim community haven't said anything. Who are all these upset people?
Another take on it is that those that are upset aren't making a big cry about it but are expecting that once the point is recognised it is dealt with responsibly?
Isn't that the line the gets trotted out regularly by some here? Stop all the virtue signalling and grievance noise?I think (as stated earlier in the thread) that maybe it is a case of recognising on one side that there is no offence intended in the name as it has a modern 'meaning' different to the literal meaning, while the other side recognise that the imagery possibly pushes that boundary a bit far and meeting halfway may entail an image change (if not a name change).
All perfectly reasonable to me and possibly a good example of working this shit out without listening to the loud noises from either side's extremities. -
@Crucial I’m still yet to see anybody Muslim complain about the name in NZ. Or the imagery.
There is nothing offensive about guys playing dress up on a horse either.
Only people I have seen in the media complaining have been decidedly non-Muslim. How patronising of them.
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@Kirwan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Crucial I’m still yet to see anybody Muslim complain about the name in NZ. Or the imagery.
There is nothing offensive about guys playing dress up on a horse either.
Only people I have seen in the media complaining have been decidedly non-Muslim. How patronising of them.
I can’t speak for potentially affected parties but I’m fairly sure that this isn’t high on priority lists for public comment except for those that want to cash in on the current feelings.
Just because people aren’t vocal doesn’t mean they like it. Maybe a little awareness is the right thing.
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Harness racing fans will recall the deeds of Terror To Love, who won the NZ Trotting Cup for three straight years between 2011 & 2013. He's since gone on to be a stallion and naturally his owner has continued the "Terror" branding to ensure name recognition in the industry.
Since the events of March 15, Harness Racing NZ (the governing body) has decided there's an issue with some of the names of Terror To Love's offspring - The Terrorist, Terror Eyes & Terror The Christian - and they've asked for those three names to be changed.
The problem is that this is contravening HRNZ's own rules - The Terrorist & Terror The Christian are both 2-years-old and both have qualified which, under HRNZ's rules, would mean they can't be renamed.
HRNZ claims it was only a request and not a sanction. I guess we'll wait and see whether this lingers or not.