Black Caps in India
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@newsjunkie Just to clarify something. There is no need at all for BCCI to purchase equipment for DRS. They just need to do as other countries do and pay Hawkeye to set up at tests during the test.
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One of those games where it's going/gone about as expected, and there's not too much that we could have done differently (once an alternative to Guptil was left at home)... though some batsmen may want to think about running their bat in...
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@newsjunkie said in Black Caps in India:
@Siam Also keep in mind, India played one series (against SL) using DRS and the players were not happy about how the 'umpire's call' worked. Tendulkar and Dhoni were strongly against it. This gave BCCI enough paper cover to justify their dollar-driven decision.
They didn't like the fact that when the technology can not produce a conclusive answer it goes back to the umpires call? WTF?
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@newsjunkie said in Black Caps in India:
Dude you can believe what you want. Hawkeye is the vendor I referred to earlier. Now BCCI is not going to say frankly that hey we were not able to negotiate favorable terms with Hawkeye so we don't want it. And they definitely can't get away with saying we don't support it because of the cost since they make billions of dollars in profit. If they accept it on away tours, they would have no justification to refuse it for home tours. They will hide behind platitudes about cricket, machine errors, and other PR statements. I even pointed out that now the players are supportive of DRS so the BCCI will probably end up accepting DRS in the near future.
Newsjunkie - do you know whether Hawkeye offers the same (flat rate) terms to all the international boards or, have they recognized that the BCCI is Daddy Warbucks and can afford to pay more so they're aiming to make them pay more?
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For KW's second innings dismissal, a Hawkeye view of it would have been very interesting. The ball pitched pretty wide then spun back to hit right in front. Without knowing how far away from the stumps he is, the umpire is guessing as to whether it would hit the stumps - must have been a fair chance it was going down the legside.
Anyway, their spinners are better than our spinners - only Santner was able to apply any pressure, Craig and Sodhi were dishing up regular buffet balls and hence the scoring rate rattled along.
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So why can't the broadcaster use the tech just for the tv audience?
It's obvious the bcci has either something to hide or just wants to throw some weight around. Either way it's a ridiculous situation for paying tv spectators
The drs usage debate in no way diminishes India's probable winning performance in this match. They've played well and deserve the win
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@KiwiPie said in Black Caps in India:
For KW's second innings dismissal, a Hawkeye view of it would have been very interesting. The ball pitched pretty wide then spun back to hit right in front. Without knowing how far away from the stumps he is, the umpire is guessing as to whether it would hit the stumps - must have been a fair chance it was going down the legside.
Anyway, their spinners are better than our spinners - only Santner was able to apply any pressure, bolded textCraig and Sodhi were dishing up regular buffet balls and hence the scoring rate rattled along.
bolded text......and this was a surprise ?
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@Siam said in Black Caps in India:
So why can't the broadcaster use the tech just for the tv audience?
That would really be hanging out the umpires to dry. It's pretty noticeable that - compared to the forensic examination decisions get in e.g. Australia, with endless replays and angles - we're getting only a couple of replays and the commentators are pretty rapidly going with "Excellent decision, blah blah". Their eyes are apparently a damn site faster than mine at picking up what's happened.
I would have liked to see a couple of super slow mo's of Guptill's dismissal - to see whether the ball had any prospect of clipping the ground somewhere. Similarly, at the end of the Indian first innings the strangle of Yadav - definitely came off the hip - I needed at least one more look to watch the glove to check it actually hit.... and never got it.
Could be age catching up with me - but, I want more replays!
I missed Kane's decision, but sounds similar to one shortly before that Rossco got a not out for. Commentators thought he was lucky, but I thought the ball turned so sharply that it would have quickly gone across and wide of the stumps.
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Sit down before you read this and make sure you clean up after yourself, someone else might want to use the computer.
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Wow - the Indians are like - totally fucked!
No wonder they've only got one wicket today on a Day 5 pitch.
They've given up!
Go Jeetan!!!!!
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If Jeets doesn't take at least 9/51 after all that county cricket experience I shall be astounded, astounded I say!
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On a more serious note, he'll be a big improvement on Craig and Sodhi's bowling...
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He's not going to have to score many runs to get more than Mark Craig.
I could have got myself as comprehensively bowled as that!
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@Chris-B. said in Black Caps in India:
@Siam said in Black Caps in India:
So why can't the broadcaster use the tech just for the tv audience?
That would really be hanging out the umpires to dry. It's pretty noticeable that - compared to the forensic examination decisions get in e.g. Australia, with endless replays and angles - we're getting only a couple of replays and the commentators are pretty rapidly going with "Excellent decision, blah blah". Their eyes are apparently a damn site faster than mine at picking up what's happened.
I would have liked to see a couple of super slow mo's of Guptill's dismissal - to see whether the ball had any prospect of clipping the ground somewhere. Similarly, at the end of the Indian first innings the strangle of Yadav - definitely came off the hip - I needed at least one more look to watch the glove to check it actually hit.... and never got it.
Could be age catching up with me - but, I want more replays!
I missed Kane's decision, but sounds similar to one shortly before that Rossco got a not out for. Commentators thought he was lucky, but I thought the ball turned so sharply that it would have quickly gone across and wide of the stumps.
Yeah Chris I was being a tad facetious.
There's currently only one mob hanging the umpires out to dry and it's simply not acceptable. No doubt the spirit of cricket is alive and well though...
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Pretty fair effort by the Black Caps in this test considering this is the first test in India for 6 of the 11 players or something like that. Have pushed the game to lunch on Day 5.
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@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps in India:
Pretty fair effort by the Black Caps in this test considering this is the first test in India for 6 of the 11 players or something like that. Have pushed the game to lunch on Day 5.
After losing a critical toss as well. If we win the toss we're every chance of beating them.
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Yeah we'll give the black caps a c+ for effort.
Taylor is on detention though - dickhead
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps in India:
After losing a critical toss as well. If we win the toss we're every chance of beating them.That might be a bit optimistic.
Pitch doesn't seem to have become the Day 5 nightmare predicted - or that it looked like happening on Day 2.
It's a bit frustrating that Guppy and Latham went quite as cheaply and Rossco committed harakiri. That's his seventh run out. If he'd avoided all those he'd have a 50 average!
Between them they had the talent to bat nearly enough time for a draw. We'll only end up about three hours short!
p.s. I recant on all the mean things I might have said about Jeetan. Who would have known Gollum's theory would be put to the test!
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mopping up now. Decent effort, but i think some are over-playing the losing of the toss. India scored easily in the 3rd innings, so we should have done better with our 2nd to be in with a hope. We've scored 230+ in the 4th, the pitch can't have been too bad.
Good tests from Santner, Ronchi, and Kane. Okay for a couple of others. Not a bad effort, but room for improvement.
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Ronchi is pretty much a "reverse Guptill"........can't see them bringing Nicholls in on the back of his efforts in tough circumstances but if he does ok in the rest of the series do they keep him on as a specialist batsman ?
He sure showed the fern he can play.
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Don't see how you could drop Ronchi - he's got a test average bordering on 60 in two markedly different environments.
We're well beaten in the end, but an effort not without promise.
Just to throw a bit of fuel on the DRS fire - 11 lbws given in the match - ten against us!
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps in India:
@Chris-B. Jeets gets the call up and you're already recanting everything? Wait till he's 4/12 after five overs before throwing in the towel, surely!
Support the team!
When he gets to 0/200 I'll recant my recantation of the useless fluffybunny.
Edit: Actually, I don't think I said too much mean about Jeets - I was more scathing of Gollum's assessment of the standard in English County Cricket.
I don't recant that...though if fucking Jeets gets 4/12 I'll be on shaky ground. Fucking Hesson - what's he thinking putting theories to the test.
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Santner and Ronchi the only two who can hold their heads high in this second innings.
Craig can fuck off. Ross needs a damn good slap, Guptill is not an opener's bum.
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I have my Fern credibility to think of.
On second thoughts, hang on a minute....
...WTF Hesson - should've saved an airfare and played Stephen Boock. He's already there - I've seen him!
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@Chris-B. Second test I'd bring in Jeets for Craig, and then Neesham in for Sodhi.
... Though I wonder whether Gollum needs anyone other than Jeets and Watling in the team, surely the other nine are superfluous.
Is Gollum just late in signing in today, or has he spontaneously combusted on reading the news?
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@Donsteppa wank first, post later
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He may be thinking WTF Hesson - that's not a theory that should have been tested.
Jeets in for Craig is a no-brainer. Then it's a question of whether you play Neesham (or even Nicholls) almost exclusively as an extra batsman, because Ish doesn't look up to it. On the other hand he did pick up a few wickets.
I think they've locked in Guppy for the duration, but if he can't make some runs then surely it's last chance saloon for him?
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The worst thing is that Kohli had two failures in this test and India still scored 300+ in both innings. You just know he's going to cash in in one of the next 2 tests.
If we can't take 20 wickets we need to strengthen the batting and give the bowlers a decent total to defend.
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I'd be tempted top open with Ronchi and Nicholls at five, but I'm not sure that Nicholls has any more chance of success than Guptill.... so... ...?
- Latham
- Guptil/local street kid
- Williamson
- Taylor (after being made to practice his running with said local street kids)
- Ronchi
- Neesham
- Santner
- Watling
- Patel
- Boult
- Wagner
Alternatives being to
- swap Ronchi and Guptil's position in the order for the "Guppy would be better at 5" brigade to be given a go.
- Ronchi open and Nicholls at 5
On balance, I'd stick with Guptil for the rest of the series.
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@Donsteppa said in Black Caps in India:
@Chris-B. Second test I'd bring in Jeets for Craig, and then Neesham in for Sodhi.
... Though I wonder whether Gollum needs anyone other than Jeets and Watling in the team, surely the other nine are superfluous.
Is Gollum just late in signing in today, or has he spontaneously combusted on reading the news?
I am late, but also now there is a chance that Jeets will go for 200/0 and I will diminished in the eyes of the fern. So its a bit like Eddie the Eagle at the top of the ski jump moment for my credability. Of which I have so much. Its a toughie. Tho' to be fair he just has to bowl better than Craig would have.
In reality we all know they will name him 12th man & pick Neesham who will shit his own spine out mid delivery in his second over, thus giving everyone a win in the "I fucking KNEW IT!" stakes.
On the DRS issue, the bit I genuinely don't get is what in it for India to ban it? The original ban seemed to flat out be a case of Sachin & Dhoni getting a couple of bad DRS calls & having a hissy fit & having the power to dictate to the board. But now?
A lot of people are on boiard the "cheating fuckers!" bandwagon, but I don't followe the logic of that. Test umpires are impartial, its not like there's 2 Indians standing, Paul Reifel sawed Ronchi off, and before that Watling was absolutely plumb & it got turned down, much to Simon Doulls amusement on comentary.
The big benefactor from DRS has been spin - especially off spin. Graham Swann talked about how DRS salavaged his career, especially front pad LBW, Danny Vetorri stopped trying to spin & started just targeting pads etc. So if you have spinners - good spinners, DRS is a huge help. And India have a few spinners - and mostly off spinners. And also batsmen who can play spin well. So banning DRS helps them (from the cheating fuckers! argument) how?
Re Ronchi, while taking a guy who just had a great test at 5 & stuffing him into open would be in line with almost all NZ selectors in the past 30 odd years, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me & even post Edgar the current selectors have been saner than our usual idiots, so I'm hoping he stays at 5.
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The all decisions even themselves out argument is flawed if KW gets a shocker compared to Guppy - we all know Guppy could get 5 LBW reprieves and not make a run whereas KW could bat all day if he escapes a marginal call.
What really shits me though is that I can't see what Hawkeye would have said about it so my righteous indignation is curbed. It also enables Doull to talk himself into saying "it's a great decision" even when he really has no idea
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Does it matter if Ronchi opens or bats at 5 in india? They're gonna start with spin anyway..
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@mimic said in Black Caps in India:
Does it matter if Ronchi opens or bats at 5 in india? They're gonna start with spin anyway..
Dunno, its often a pshycological thing. Guys who are outstanding at 5 & shithouse at 4. Look a Rahul Dravid, incredible no. 3, often when India had a guarenteed wicket opening, but move him up to open & he hated it & his average dropped 5 runs. Michael Clarke averaged 60 at 5, 30 at 4.
Ronchi has spent his career batting in the middle / lower middle order. I'm in the "it aint broke dony fix it camp". Plus if we move Guppy to 5 for 2 tests & he averages 29 hat have we learned? Its almost "here you go mate, either score 100 in a new slot, in India, on turners, against one of the top spinners of the last 20 years or your career is over, no presure"
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@gollum said in Black Caps in India:
Jimmy Neesham is still, shocklingly, crocked. So wont be playing in the second test
Jeets flights got fucked, so he arrives 24 hours before the start of the next test.
Getting your excuses re: Jeets in early, good to see.
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@gollum said in Black Caps in India:
Ronchi has spent his career batting in the middle / lower middle order. I'm in the "it aint broke dony fix it camp". Plus if we move Guppy to 5 for 2 tests & he averages 29 hat have we learned? Its almost "here you go mate, either score 100 in a new slot, in India, on turners, against one of the top spinners of the last 20 years or your career is over, no presure"
I think they probably locked Guppy in as the opener for all the tests when they left Raval at home. In part, that might have been a psychological ploy to give Guppy confidence that his place isn't on a knife edge (i.e. he's got 6 chances to make runs) and in part it might have been, well we're not going to throw Raval to the Indian spinners on debut. Pakistan at home might be an easier start.
Agree - leave Ronchi at five.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps in India:
@gollum said in Black Caps in India:
Jimmy Neesham is still, shocklingly, crocked. So wont be playing in the second test
Jeets flights got fucked, so he arrives 24 hours before the start of the next test.
Getting your excuses re: Jeets in early, good to see.
I'll double down -
"175 Wickets for offspinner Jeetan Patel in first-class matches since the start of 2015, the most by any bowler. He has been included in the squad in place of injured Mark Craig. He last played a Test in January 2013. This year, so far, he has taken 84 wickets in 22 first-class matches, also the most by any bowler. "
Also Kane has the squirts apparently but should be ok to
shit himself while battingplay -
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