-
@SouthernMann said in NZ Politics:
@paremata said in NZ Politics:
@SouthernMann said in NZ Politics:
I could find plenty of examples, but I can't be fucked. But off the top of my head Stuart Nash, focuses on Oranga Tamariki, criticism of the cyclone response is ongoing. Your arguments are quite poor and ill-informed. Jack Tame regularly walks all over politicians from both sides of the house on his Sunday show funded by the PIJF. If you can't find stories critical of government ministers or government departments you are not looking hard enough.
Here’s the criteria for PIJF funding , to get funding you have to agree to explaining the governments view of co governance. If you breach it it’s basically a loan you’ll pay back as a penalty. You don’t think that a vaguely worded agreement like that with financial penalties doesn’t have an effect on editorial practices ?
You mean Jack Tame who criticised Shane Reti for going out with ambos see the state of the health system ? ffs
If you don’t think our media is heavily biased in one direction I really don’t know what it would take to change your mind . It might be a touch less than when Ardern was pm but by their own admission when surveyed the vast majority of our journalists described their own politics as left leaning .
One last point , the younger journalists in particular see National as the antipodean version of the Republican Party and have extensively covered Luxon and Simeon Browns religious leanings and their thoughts on abortion. Can you honestly tell me they’ve given the same amount of attention to the likes of Mahuta who also voted against late stage abortion? If not why?
I’m sure Ardern misses the media constantly holding her feet to the fire with this sort of hard hitting commentary
Ok. Let's rip through some key points. I'm hoping this is the last I have to respond on this, as my forehead is getting sore banging against the brick wall.
-
Co-governance. I can't find what you are talking about. What it does indicate is that there are obligations under the Treat of Waitangi. This is found under the heading; New Zealand Identify and public interest requirements. Which should not be confused with aligning to government purposes and direction.
-
Editorial practises. The PIJF is funded for projects and certain roles, not as a blanket approach for editorial decision making. Does NZME receiving it force Mike Hosking, Heather du Plessis-Allan or Jamie McKay to run a left wing narrative just because it received some funding. No.
-
Jack Tame goes after either side. In the same episode he went after the Kelvin Davis. To me the questions on Reti should have been directed towards St John. As a charity it makes some very odd lobbying decisions. Its independence allows it. It was clear this was a lobbying exercise from the national emergency health provider to a likely incoming Health Minister. Its charitable status allows it to play stupid games like that.
-
Our media on the whole is fair and balanced. Poor decision making is gone after whether it is done by the left or the right. The grunt reporters are generally young, this is because it is a fairly poorly paid industry. A huge chunk are out of the game by the time they are 30.
Interestingly you cited an article on lobbying written by RNZ our one true public interest, government funded media organisation.
Our media is a long way from perfect. Our regional newspapers have been hammered. We are struggling to get a good understanding of local decisions, court reporting has died apart from the big cases. We need to have a good and useful media. However, it is not a bought and paid for service.
Honestly, I wouldn't bother. Paremata takes his talking points from the Kiwiblog comments section.
As someone who has worked both in the media (at least 7 years ago now, mind you) and also in politics on the centre-right a few years ago, I find these claims of media bias completely overblown. The partisans naturally call members of the gallery as biased, but you often notice someone like former journo Henry Cooke would get called out on Twitter by right-leaning people as a leftie woke hack, and the next day, he'd be yelled at by Teatowel Twitter (the ones who still indicate their vaccination status in their username with four syringe emojis) for cozying up to the conservatives.
As dogmeat noted above, three of the biggest orgs I would honestly consider are down the middle when it comes to political reporting. In the gallery, they're there to interrogate a failing and if those failings keep appearing on one side, they'll keep going after that side.
I do think the PIJF had its merits, especially around the procedural stuff like court reporting and local democracy/council, but perhaps they should have kept it tight around that rather than some of the other avenues.
The biggest issue with journalism, as you note, is how poorly paid it is - Stuff journos especially, are paid considerably less than their Herald equivalents for example, and then even on top of that, people will get a $20k bump to go to comms and (if they're one of the few in a Govt department media team because comms isn't just media queries) spend their days dealing with queries from the underpaid journos.
As for Windows97 offering the smoking gun that journalists' credibility ratings are below that of politicians and used car salesmen? They've been hovering around that spot for donkey's years. You're not breaking news on that front!
-
-
Great points Smudge. Imagine spending your days dealing with media queries from underpaid journos. That must be exhausting. Those government department media people must be absolute saints.
-
@SouthernMann said in NZ Politics:
Great points Smudge. Imagine spending your days dealing with media queries from underpaid journos. That must be exhausting. Those government department media people must be absolute saints.
I wouldn't get THAT carried away... but the ex-Otago types are close to that standing.
-
@Windows97 It could also have something to do with more and more people getting their 'news' from whatever social media echo chamber is their preference and
a) parroting what aligns with their own prejudices
b) defining anything that doesn't fit with their world view as evidence of biasMost people think they are reasonable and completely unbiased no matter where their opinions actually fit on the spectrum, so this reinforces b) above.
-
Ok, when polled in 2022 63% of journos in NZ said they leaned left politically and only 12 % right https://thefacts.nz/social/journalists-political-views/
This wouldn't necessarily be an issue if it were not for money from advertising drying up and the news shifting to more editorial type content which is cheaper and definitely comes across as more biased .
A good example of this would be the media outlets have tried to make out that Shane Reti doing drive alongs with ambulance crews to get a feel for where the health system is at is somehow dodgy and in breach of the patients privacy.
This one from stuff joins a whole bunch of different things together from four authors all trying to make out what he was doing was wrong and then at the bottom of the article is a footnote added later that he did nothing wrong and got patients consent. There's six different reasons to be allowed to ride with St John and he met three of them. I don't know how this got published in the first place tbh , did no one contact St Johns before it was published?
https://archive.is/XvRkrOutside of the Platform which is youtube and subscriber only and Newstalkzb I don't think there much diversity of opinion in our media tbh, If you can argue otherwise I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning . Personally I think we've been really poorly served by our media since 2020 and it probably was at its worst during the parliament protests when all of our major outlets portrayed the protesters as far right racists, said they were pumping sewage into the harbour and threw chemicals at the police .All of which wasn't true and was never corrected.
Trust in media has continued falling , you can argue about the PIJF but I don't think its helped at all with the perception of the media https://www.aut.ac.nz/news/stories/trust-in-the-news-slips-further
-
This post is deleted!
-
@Smudge said in NZ Politics:
As for Windows97 offering the smoking gun that journalists' credibility ratings are below that of politicians and used car salesmen? They've been hovering around that spot for donkey's years. You're not breaking news on that front!
If you are a journalist (still) then I am not sure I can believe you...
-
@paremata said in NZ Politics:
the Platform which is youtube and subscriber only
Not quite true.
You can listen live, and they put up selected interviews for non-subscribers for a day or so.
Got on to them through Devlin's sports shows.
And whilst I agree with a lot (not all) of Plunket's stuff he fucks me off with they way he talks over his interviewees.
However, the Posie Parker stuff was the point at which I really started questioning the impartiality of NZ media.
Even ZB, "right wing" ZB, either platformed Shaneel Lal's bullshit (on "news" bulletins), or ignored it (Hoskins, he actually stated he was ignoring it).
The championing of shit like "The Disinformation Project" worries me.
-
Can't question the presenter chasing a yes or no from this dude ...
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/07/27/labours-chief-whip-quizzed-on-the-partys-leak/
How to say "Yes I leaked it" without saying "Yes I leaked it".
-
A mechanic is an expert on cars, an accountant on money. A journalist is an arsehole if they don't publish what I want to read. A government comms person is a lazy layabout overly paid piston wristed gibbon. Everyone is an expert in media.
-
@paremata said in NZ Politics:
Ok, when polled in 2022 63% of journos in NZ said they leaned left politically and only 12 % right https://thefacts.nz/social/journalists-political-views/
so the pollsters themselves say there are 1,600 journo's in NZ.
1,200 were invited to participate.
29% did so (of the 1,200) or 22% of the total number of journo's.
So, you can't really draw any conclusions from a very small sample. Especially when all that 'proves' is political allegiance - not bias.
-
@paremata said in NZ Politics:
the news shifting to more editorial type content which is cheaper and definitely comes across as more biased .
Definitely agree with this, but it works both ways. Herald has DePlessis Allen, Hoskens, Bernard Orsman - all massively biased towards the right.
I think it's more a case of sensationalist click baiting and the pursuit of inexpensive stories rather than any real bias.
The news outlet most often accused of left-wing bias is Radio NZ but they regularly eviscerate the left - and the right.
-
@booboo said in NZ Politics:
@paremata said in NZ Politics:
the Platform which is youtube and subscriber only
Not quite true.
You can listen live, and they put up selected interviews for non-subscribers for a day or so.
Got on to them through Devlin's sports shows.
And whilst I agree with a lot (not all) of Plunket's stuff he fucks me off with they way he talks over his interviewees.
However, the Posie Parker stuff was the point at which I really started questioning the impartiality of NZ media.
Even ZB, "right wing" ZB, either platformed Shaneel Lal's bullshit (on "news" bulletins), or ignored it (Hoskins, he actually stated he was ignoring it).
The championing of shit like "The Disinformation Project" worries me.
Shaneel has been busy
-
That Lal is an absolute bellend.
-
@booboo said in NZ Politics:
@paremata said in NZ Politics:
the Platform which is youtube and subscriber only
Not quite true.
You can listen live, and they put up selected interviews for non-subscribers for a day or so.
Got on to them through Devlin's sports shows.
And whilst I agree with a lot (not all) of Plunket's stuff he fucks me off with they way he talks over his interviewees.
However, the Posie Parker stuff was the point at which I really started questioning the impartiality of NZ media.
Even ZB, "right wing" ZB, either platformed Shaneel Lal's bullshit (on "news" bulletins), or ignored it (Hoskins, he actually stated he was ignoring it).
The championing of shit like "The Disinformation Project" worries me.
Just to clarify: the "it" I was referring to was the Albert Park violence.
-
@dogmeat My point is that the media used to be well trusted in years past but year on year it's declining.
If your trust levels are going down and your viewership is going down and being leaked to other platforms there's a problem with your industry.
To say this is no fault of the media's what-so-ever and due entirely to people wanting to fill their own social media echo chambers is somewhat disingenuous.
If the end point is that there's nothing wrong with the media (despite many leading factors saying there is) and if you don't your stupid then well, jolly good luck getting any of those people back or to part with their time and money.
-
@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
@paremata said in NZ Politics:
Ok, when polled in 2022 63% of journos in NZ said they leaned left politically and only 12 % right https://thefacts.nz/social/journalists-political-views/
so the pollsters themselves say there are 1,600 journo's in NZ.
1,200 were invited to participate.
29% did so (of the 1,200) or 22% of the total number of journo's.
So, you can't really draw any conclusions from a very small sample. Especially when all that 'proves' is political allegiance - not bias.
For a statistically significant sample size based off a population of 1,600 you would need ~ 310 people. 348 responded hence I guess why the report was published, statistically the respondents were enough.
-
If you watch the interview, Chloe also doesnt agree with being able to sack an employee on the spot if they are stealing from you...
-
@SouthernMann said in NZ Politics:
That Lal is an absolute bellend.
Careful, even remotely disagreeing is considered hate speech.
-
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
If you watch the interview, Chloe also doesnt agree with being able to sack an employee on the spot if they are stealing from you...
I could be wrong but I get the feeling Chloe hasn’t had the stress of owning a small business.
NZ Politics