-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="587794" data-time="1465887499">
<div>
<p>The NICS background check says "mental defective" - not psychotic.</p>
<p>Bipolar is a mental condition... and as you have pointed out, they are of greatest danger to themselves during an episode.</p>
<p>Therefore, that would seem to meet the definition of mental defective as per the Alcohol / Tobacco / Firearms website.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><em><span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:'Open Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;">A person is “adjudicated as a mental defective†<strong>if any lawful authority finds that “a person, as a result of</strong> subnormal intelligence, or mental illness or incompetency, condition or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or others or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or order his own affairs.â€</span></em></p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/agorder0001pdf/download'>https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/agorder0001pdf/download</a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I've bolded the relevant bit for you.</p> -
<p>Could be that - a "lawful authority" is defined as a court, board, or commission, I guess it depends on the situations where one finds themselves in front of a "lawful authority" for consideration. </p>
<p>It could also be the case that he isn't bipolar and his wife conducted her own diagnosis of the behaviour she endured.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="587859" data-time="1465891494">
<div>
<p>Could be that - a "lawful authority" is defined as a court, board, or commission, I guess it depends on the situations where one finds themselves in front of a "lawful authority" for consideration. </p>
<p>It could also be the case that <strong>he isn't bipolar and his wife conducted her own diagnosis of the behaviour she endured.</strong></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I was wondering this too, angry closeted gay who has no respect for women beats his wife is my diagnosis.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="587874" data-time="1465892375"><p>I was wondering this too, angry closeted gay who has no respect for women beats his wife is my diagnosis.</p></blockquote>Tormented by the guilt due to his religion through his vocal zealot father
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="587881" data-time="1465892598">
<div>
<p>Tormented by the guilt due to his religion through his vocal zealot father</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>That too, its weird that homosexuality is forbidden for muslims yet seems pretty commonplace in a lot of muslim countries.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="587859" data-time="1465891494">
<div>
<p>Could be that - a "lawful authority" is defined as a court, board, or commission, I guess it depends on the situations where one finds themselves in front of a "lawful authority" for consideration. </p>
<p>It could also be the case that he isn't bipolar and his wife conducted her own diagnosis of the behaviour she endured.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>There's a lot of claims coming out about the gunman, with an amazing lack of evidence for any of it too.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="587908" data-time="1465893943">
<div>
<p>There's a lot of claims coming out about the gunman, with an amazing lack of evidence for any of it too.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You talking about this thread or in general?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Nevermind its both.</p> -
<p>All sorts of (supposed) stories coming out: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11656728'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11656728</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Lots of conclusions that you can start to draw (psychotic, some form of ISIS and radical influence so far), but looks there's a lot more yet to come.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="588049" data-time="1465943037">
<div>
<p>If this person was a closeted gay person, wouldn't that just exemplify the role religion played in the shooting?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I think it would highlight the fact that the guy was a whack job who couldn't cope with his feelings, his guilt re-those feelings, and his daddy issues. Last time I checked large portions of american society still don't accept and/or are disgusted by homosexuality</p> -
<p>The allegations from numerous witnesses that he was a repressed homosexual bear more weight than his wifes statement that he suffered bipolar.</p>
<p>Attempting to reconcile ones sexuality with a religion that won't tolerate it in a country that ostracizes both your sexuality and your religion - that's quite a cocktail.</p>
<div>News overnight reports his wife knew he was planning something and that she drove him to buy ammo and to scout places out. She tried to talk him out of it but failed to raise it to the authorities. </div> -
<p>Interesting statistics about gun related deaths in the US of A</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604'>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is very topical right now, and the figures don't take into account the last few years but terrorist related shootings make up a tiny percentage of the total</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="588068" data-time="1465945350">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p>The allegations from numerous witnesses that he was a repressed homosexual bear more weight than his wifes statement that he suffered bipolar.</p>
<p>Attempting to reconcile ones sexuality with a religion that won't tolerate it in a country that ostracizes both your sexuality and your religion - that's quite a cocktail.</p>
<div>News overnight reports his wife knew he was planning something and that she drove him to buy ammo and to scout places out. She tried to talk him out of it but failed to raise it to the authorities. </div>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>You are not ostracized in the US for being homosexual. They have gay marriage, gay clubs, gay pride parades. Of course there are individuals who dont like it, but if yuo think the USA ostracise homosexuals by allowing them to legally be gay, get marrried, have marches and do whatever they want and be protected by law.. hwo exactly would yuo describe how they are treated in Islamic countries?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>he wouldnt have given a flying shit about how the country would treat him if he came out as gay... he was sacred shitless of his religion and his god.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The only cocktail.. was a repressed homosexual who believed in a religion that hated who he was. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="588103" data-time="1465947386">
<div>
<p>You are not ostracized in the US for being homosexual. They have gay marriage, gay clubs, gay pride parades. Of course there are individuals who dont like it, but if yuo think the USA ostracise homosexuals by allowing them to legally be gay, get marrried, have marches and do whatever they want and be protected by law.. hwo exactly would yuo describe how they are treated in Islamic countries?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>he wouldnt have given a flying shit about how the country would treat him if he came out as gay... he was sacred shitless of his religion and his god.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The only cocktail.. was a repressed homosexual who believed in a religion that hated who he was. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>What happens in other countries happens in other countries. Lets keep the discussion on where this took place as thats whats relevant in this discussion about Omar Mateen rather than where he might have grown up.</p>
<p>Theres been approximately 200 anti LGBT bills passed in 2016. They may have got SSM but the religious right are introducing bills to allow them to discriminate based on religious beliefs. The LGBT battle is far from over. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also consider, LGBT are 4% of the population yet they are the motivation for 18.6% of hate crimes according to the FBI</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available'>https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available</a></p>
<p>That seems disproportionate to me. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="588126" data-time="1465951107">
<div>
<p>What happens in other countries happens in other countries. Lets keep the discussion on where this took place as thats whats relevant in this discussion about Omar Mateen rather than where he might have grown up.</p>
<p>Theres been approximately 200 anti LGBT bills passed in 2016. They may have got SSM but the religious right are introducing bills to allow them to discriminate based on religious beliefs. The LGBT battle is far from over. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also consider, LGBT are 4% of the population yet they are the motivation for 18.6% of hate crimes according to the FBI</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available'>https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/november/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available</a></p>
<p>That seems disproportionate to me. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>No, sorry, you dont get to just decide the parameters to suit your narrative.</p>
<p>You want to talk about hate crimes.. how many 'hate crimes' have been committed by the religion that he followed? How many deaths have been inflicted because of the ideology he has followed, how much misery has Islam heaped on Homosexuals?</p>
<p>Oh boo some laws have been passed that are supposedly discriminate (I am sure that is highly debatable btw)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The LGBT fight is far from over? Least they are having a supposed battle. Islam would just execute before it started. Do the regressive left care about Homosexual rights? Cause they have a damn funny way of showing it when they march in favour of a religion which hates and murders homosexuals.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="588051" data-time="1465943484">
<div>
<p>I think it would highlight the fact that the guy was a whack job who couldn't cope with his feelings, his guilt re-those feelings, and his daddy issues. Last time I checked large portions of american society still don't accept and/or are disgusted by homosexuality</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah and most of them are religious of some sort. I saw a Pew Poll which said over 90% of atheists support gay marriage. It was actually surprising that about 40% of Muslims support gay marriage. Muslim Americans do tend to be wealthier and more educated than immigrants to Europe.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="588126" data-time="1465951107">
<div>
<p>What happens in other countries happens in other countries. Lets keep the discussion on where this took place as thats whats relevant in this discussion about Omar Mateen rather than where he might have grown up.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>He was American born, so that's the only jurisdiction that's relevant.</p> -
<p>This just seems a little wrong to me. I grew up with firearms on the farm, and obviously they had a purpose - pest control primarily - but that didn't exclude having a big of fun and target shooting with them.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I get target shooting. I get sport shooting. I get looking for accuracy and perfection with e.g. a bolt-action rifle, or a double-barreled shotgun for clay targets. Hell, even a pump action with a few rounds in the chamber - sometimes there is more than a couple of targets when you're keeping birds off your crop (I don't really get duck hunting, but I understand its pretty heavily regulated).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But I just don't get how a small, light weapon created to look like an assault carbine is useful or justifiable for any of those things. </p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/helen_ubinas/20160614_Ubinas__I_bought_an_AR-15_semi-automatic_rifle_in_Philly_in_7_minutes.html'>http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/helen_ubinas/20160614_Ubinas__I_bought_an_AR-15_semi-automatic_rifle_in_Philly_in_7_minutes.html</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p></p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><br><p> </p>
<p><b>...</b></p>
<p> </p>
<p>SEVEN MINUTES</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That's how long it took me to buy an AR-15, the semiautomatic rifle used in the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Seven minutes. From the moment I handed the salesperson my driver's license to the moment I passed my background check.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It likely will take more time than that during the forthcoming round of vigils to respectfully read the names of the more than 100 people who were killed or injured.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's obscene.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Horrifying.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Maybe surprising to some - though it shouldn't be, not at this point in our bloody, hate-filled history.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it wasn't so easy to get a gun in this country, the 29-year-old gunman who went on a shooting rampage in a popular gay nightclub in Orlando on Sunday wouldn't have been able to buy the weapon he used to <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20160614_Names_of_Orlando_massacre_victims.html'>kill 49 people</a> and injure 53.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it wasn't so easy to get a gun in this country, another gunman who came before him wouldn't have been able to use the same kind of firearm to kill elementary-school children in Newtown, Conn.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it wasn't so appallingly easy to get a gun in this country, it wouldn't be easy for the next gunman to deliver the kind of carnage that's as much a part of this country as the American flag.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And there will undoubtedly be a next one.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This has been said, but bears repeating and repeating and repeating some more. If nothing changed after children - babies - were slaughtered inside their school, do any of us really believe anything will change following the deaths of people so many fear and loathe simply for trying to live their truths?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The gunman was apparently enraged over seeing a same-sex couple kiss. Think about that. Love enraged him. Love made him kill.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But I try not to think about any of that as I drive over to the gun shop in Philadelphia. I need to come up with some plausible story, I think. What if I'm asked why, a day after this massacre, I want to buy the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20160614_In_Pa___assault_weapons_available__as_quickly_as_you_can_buy_a_cheesesteak_.html'>very type of gun</a> used to slaughter people at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I consider my options:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm a woman who wants a rifle for safety reasons?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm a gun enthusiast with a soft spot for military-style rifles?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm a card-carrying member of the NRA who is afraid the government will be coming for my guns?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Turns out I don't need a story. The AR-15 is on display in the window of the gun shop. It is being promoted as the gun of the week.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What will it take to buy one, I ask the sales guy.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Did I have identification? Yes.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Was I a U.S. citizen? Yes.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"Bingo," the friendly gun shop sales guy said. "All we have to do is fill paperwork out." I've filled out more paperwork at the doctor's office for a routine checkup than I did Monday afternoon.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I felt a little squeamish about not telling him who I was and what I was trying to do, but this wasn't about them; they weren't doing anything illegal. The truth is that I could have bought the gun as easily in any gun shop in Pennsylvania. I just didn't realize how easily.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Go to a licensed gun store. Fill out about a page and a half of forms. Wait (if that's really the right word for it) for an instant background check, and then pay the man. I told the guy I was on a budget, so I got an AR-15 for $759.99. God bless America.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No need for a concealed carry permit. No mandatory training, though the guys did give me a coupon for a free day pass for a local gun range. No need for even a moment to at least consider how gross all of this felt as relatives of the dead were still being notified.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>To be fair, there was an extra 10 or 15 minutes or so of chitchat inside the gun store before I walked out with a cardboard box with the words Smith & Wesson emblazoned on it, and an atta-girl for thinking ahead and buying the most popular rifle in the country before there's a run on the gun from nervous gun owners who fear a ban on them.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"Yeah, because it was about the gun, not Islamic terrorism, right?" a man buying a gun offered, unsolicited.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here we go, I thought.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The fact is, what shattered so many lives in the early hours Sunday was about many things.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Homophobia, first and foremost.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Radicalism - the American gunman claimed allegiance to the Islamic State and praised the Boston Marathon bombers. Even if that's not true, the radicals won't have a problem with that.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mental illness.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And yes, guns. Insane, nonsensical access to guns. So pick whatever reason or narrative matches your politics or agenda. Have at it, because the truth is that while they all play a part, what's really destroying this country is fear and hate. A festering fear and hate that we better think about when it's time to vote for our next president, because the fear and hate is not all coming from the outside. It's not all from some unnamed foreign bogeyman. Increasingly it's from within, from down the street, the next state over, the next potential leader of this country.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As I walked to my car with my brand-new gun, I wasn't sure what to do with it. I didn't want it, but I also didn't want it in anyone else's hands either.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So I drove to the Philadelphia police's Sixth District on 11th and Winter, where I seemed to stump more than a few officers when I explained who I was and what I wanted to do. Have you ever tried to turn in a gun in this city? Spoiler alert: It takes longer than it does to buy a gun.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As an officer prepared the paperwork, I noticed a sign that hung over one of the walls.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>United We Stand, it read.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My God, I thought, what a lie.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We are more divided every single day, and yet our answer to that is to meet fear and hate with more fear and hate and then expect a different outcome. To be shocked at the world we live in, left to do little else but hold vigils.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>While I write this, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20160614_In_Philly__2_000_gather_to_mourn_Orlando_victims.html'>thousands are attending a vigil</a> at City Hall.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My heart is with you all. But while we're mourning the dead, let us mourn the national loss of humanity that is to blame for this world we have created.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And let us take more than seven minutes to do it.</p>
<p>...</p>
</blockquote> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="588130" data-time="1465951383">
<div>
<p>No, sorry, you dont get to just decide the parameters to suit your narrative.</p>
<p>You want to talk about hate crimes.. how many 'hate crimes' have been committed by the religion that he followed? How many deaths have been inflicted because of the ideology he has followed, how much misery has Islam heaped on Homosexuals?</p>
<p>Oh boo some laws have been passed that are supposedly discriminate (I am sure that is highly debatable btw)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The LGBT fight is far from over? Least they are having a supposed battle. Islam would just execute before it started. Do the regressive left care about Homosexual rights? Cause they have a damn funny way of showing it when they march in favour of a religion which hates and murders homosexuals.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Im trying to keep this discussion focussed on the country where this guy was born, grew up, got radicalised and subsequently committed a mass shooting.</p>
<p>Its you who is trying to change the parameters to suit your anti islam narrative by expanding the discussion to Islamic countries. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>My intent re HateCrimes was to demonstrate that homosexuals are indeed ostracized in America which you had challenged. Hate Crimes performed under Islam is not a relevant counter argument.</p>
<p>If the Anti LGBT bills are only "supposedly discriminatory" and "is highly debatable", it should be quite easy for you to attack this point.</p>
<p>I don't know about the regressive left... perhaps you can ask them... whoever they are...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="phoenetia" data-cid="588168" data-time="1465954690">
<div>
<p>Im trying to keep this discussion focussed on the country where this guy was born, grew up, got radicalised and subsequently committed a mass shooting.</p>
<p>Its you who is trying to change the parameters to suit your anti islam narrative by expanding the discussion to Islamic countries. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>My intent re HateCrimes was to demonstrate that homosexuals are indeed ostracized in America which you had challenged. Hate Crimes performed under Islam is not a relevant counter argument.</p>
<p>If the Anti LGBT bills are only "supposedly discriminatory" and "is highly debatable", it should be quite easy for you to attack this point.</p>
<p>I don't know about the regressive left... perhaps you can ask them... whoever they are...</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am keeping the discussion based on the ideology that caused the hate crime. I am not changing anything, I am not restricting what you can talk about, you are trying to limit the conversation to what suits you.</p>
<p>It appears you may know more about the regressive left than you realise.</p>
Guns?.........or is that the least of the problems?