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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And now apparently if you have a wedding you have to wear masks at all times unless eating and drinking. Even for the wedding photos. Time to tell them to fuck off I reckon.
How retarded are these fluffybunnies making these rules? How can you have a functioning health care system when this idiot (https://www.beehive.govt.nz/minister/hon-andrew-little) is advised by these spastics (https://www.health.govt.nz/about-ministry/leadership-ministry/executive-leadership-team)?
Govt: We're going to have a mask mandate.
Everyone else: Overwhelming evidence is masks don't work.
Govt: We'll mandate tight fitting surgical masks. Then they'll work.
Everyone else: Have you secured supply? There's a bit of a problem with supply at the moment.
Govt: Wear them while taking wedding photos.
Everyone else five years later: Oh look how happy and pretty you are. This is you isn't it?I'll always remember visiting Santa with the kids in 2021. We had to wear masks. Even for the photo 🤦🤷
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Well, well. They've sneakily changed those paragraphs in the page I linked to earlier.
This morning's version:
This afternoon's version:
Ever get the feeling they are just making shit up as they go along? I'm not sure why we should take anything they say seriously TBH.
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Well, well. They've sneakily changed those paragraphs in the page I linked to earlier.
This morning's version:
This afternoon's version:
Ever get the feeling they are just making shit up as they go along? I'm not sure why we should take anything they say seriously TBH.
Based on recent "plans" - that's a certainty.
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Well, well. They've sneakily changed those paragraphs in the page I linked to earlier.
This morning's version:
This afternoon's version:
Ever get the feeling they are just making shit up as they go along? I'm not sure why we should take anything they say seriously TBH.
That's pretty damning. Clowns
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Question - is Delta still kicking around, or has it died out?
If the first and only type of Corona' was Omicron, I think half of the restrictive stuff govts are doing now would never have happened. Covid has become synonymous with fear aided by a gas-lighting media.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@siam Mate it's you who've been saying it's not about case numbers
Yes, I have. My point is in relation to all the pain in the arse rules and behaviour regulations. The vaccine or behaviour restrictions do not stop or significantly reduce anyone getting the virus. Case number stats prove that. Masked and unmasked region comparisons prove that. Massive numbers of vaccinated getting infected prove that.
Now once you get the virus, then the focus changes to treatment but all the palaver before infection doesn't work. That is a control and fear mechanism, not a significant health measure or strategy.
We all agree you can't stop an airborne virus getting to you, so stop making people believe you can. The battle starts after Omicron is contracted and then the sickness, or not, that follows. As well as the immunity that follows. This all happens at an individual level. Everyone reacts differently once getting the virus. Large scale population rules don't matter or work.
Masked up wedding photos does nothing to halt the spread. Pouring over someone's vax certificate at a party venue entrance does nothing to stop the spread.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank Today is the first day in NZ when reported Omicron cases have outnumbered Delta
Yes, it's very encouraging. Only a week or so ago, Dr John Campbell showed stats of Delta vs Omicron in NZ and it was 70% to 30%, (remember Omicron hadn't really got in yet) and since then it's taken over the more harmful Delta. Just like every pandemic 3rd wave in history. Just like it did in the closest comparison country, Australia.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Pouring over someone's vax certificate at a party venue entrance does nothing to stop the spread.
Well it kinda does. It inconveniences people into getting vaccinated, and vaccinated people spread the disease less effectively than unvaxxed.
But I think we are seeing a logical fallacy at work in NZ. The PR machine has meant that many people equate vaccination with low or no risk and unvaccination with high risk. Of course that’s not true. For 2 people with identical exposure to the virus the vaccinated person is statistically less likely to transmit the virus onwards than an unvaccinated person. But an unvaccinated person who has been by themselves at home in a town with no cases is less of a risk to you than a vaccinated person who went to Sylvia Park yesterday.
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@siam said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Pouring over someone's vax certificate at a party venue entrance does nothing to stop the spread.
Well it kinda does. It inconveniences people into getting vaccinated, and vaccinated people spread the disease less effectively than unvaxxed.
But I think we are seeing a logical fallacy at work in NZ. The PR machine has meant that many people equate vaccination with low or no risk and unvaccination with high risk. Of course that’s not true. For 2 people with identical exposure to the virus the vaccinated person is statistically less likely to transmit the virus onwards than an unvaccinated person. But an unvaccinated person who has been by themselves at home in a town with no cases is less of a risk to you than a vaccinated person who went to Sylvia Park yesterday.
Just one of so many misconceptions about covid19. Maybe they could have spent less time being kind and more time being factual?
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@canefan Yeah, in hindsight we might have been better off with them just laying out what constitutes a low risk vs high risk scenario, then letting us pick our options while targeting support towards people who don’t exactly have options. But where’s the control in that?
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@siam said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Pouring over someone's vax certificate at a party venue entrance does nothing to stop the spread.
Well it kinda does. It inconveniences people into getting vaccinated, and vaccinated people spread the disease less effectively than unvaxxed.
But I think we are seeing a logical fallacy at work in NZ. The PR machine has meant that many people equate vaccination with low or no risk and unvaccination with high risk. Of course that’s not true. For 2 people with identical exposure to the virus the vaccinated person is statistically less likely to transmit the virus onwards than an unvaccinated person. But an unvaccinated person who has been by themselves at home in a town with no cases is less of a risk to you than a vaccinated person who went to Sylvia Park yesterday.
I think it's highly negligible as Israel and Gibraltar data shows. The vaccinated spread the disease incredibly effectively. Ditto for Australia, in the last 3 weeks the data looks like what the narrative suggests will happen to unvaccinated only
And by the time you walk through the venue your infection status is completely unknown and it's too late anyway. 100% you're better equipped to deal with it from there if vaxxed.
Also the nature of infection is so random. Countless stories of 1 or 2 people in a household or car getting covid and yet nobody else.
We're heading down the wrong route trying to pin down who has got it and who is passing it on. The entire emphasis must be on individual treatment when an infection occurs. No country or region has been able to curb the spread of Omicron in the last 2 months.
We're told that vaccinations limit the spread, and here we are more vaccinated than ever and more spread than ever (worldwide, NZ and WA time is coming)
It's time to pay some attention to mental health, not just immunological health
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan Yeah, in hindsight we might have been better off with them just laying out what constitutes a low risk vs high risk scenario, then letting us pick our options while targeting support towards people who don’t exactly have options. But where’s the control in that?
Letting us think for ourselves? Nah
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan Yeah, in hindsight we might have been better off with them just laying out what constitutes a low risk vs high risk scenario, then letting us pick our options while targeting support towards people who don’t exactly have options. But where’s the control in that?
Letting us think for ourselves? Nah
in fairness, that is the new system. You're on your own - make your own risk assessments, and be smart.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage which has been made easier by our geographic isolation, still feel with the benefit of watching from the sidelines most of the game, we havent done enough preparation for when the inevitable happened.
When vaxxing kicked in (and remember that we were at the bottom of the list for supply) many thought that we would be lucky to reach 80% levels as experienced elsewhere so wanted to open things up at that level. We held out and reached 90+ (although at the same time probably cemented opinion in a good 5% that won't play the game). Our own, different, NZ experience has set a realistic target of getting boosted to the same levels and once again people are saying 'it doesn't matter, just open up'.
We have done plenty wrong down in the weeds but overall have done much better than other countries. There is a grass is greener attitude among many who fail to see that we are living fairly normal lives. Daily deaths per million in NZ (rolling 7 day avg) has never reached higher than 0.2, in the UK it has previously reached over 18!!!! For those looking across the Ta$man and saying that what is coming isn't bad that same stat (with Omicron) is about 4 times their previous highest and currently around 2.
I'd say that this last figure is the one the govt is trying to avoid. If we go 4x our previous high then we are looking at 4 deaths a day.
Simple question. If the road toll was 4 a day wouldn't we want action?
If getting boosters can reduce that and it means we keep restrictions in place for a few weeks while that happens I'm happy with that particular decision. I see no need to 'let it ruun'Been dwelling on all the "how well we're going beating the pandemic stats", but not sure I'm clear enough in my thoughts to articulate my feelings.
And it's probably already been said better by someone else.
But it's become clear that the pandemic is not only about beating the virus.
NZ (and Aus) has done fantastically beating the virus, but as you / we eye up a way to reenter the world we have to consider additional metrics, like keeping food on the table.
I think we've become blinkered to the virus being the only factor in the pandemic, which is why the epidemiologists are such scaremongers. All they care about/focus on is beating the virus.
I think that's why most of us here in Australia accept the current spread as inevitable and a necessary inconvenience, and are hanging out for an end to mandatory isolations so delivery drivers get back to work so we can wipe our arses again.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@booboo my sister says omicron in oz was the best thing to happen. No one wanted to be the one to be responsible for letting it in. But now it's there things aren't nearly as bad as they feared
All metrics better than modelled
Still the panty-waistes wailing because people are dying and we should be doing mooooore (mainly the NSW government for some strange reason I can't quite put my finger on).
Considering we are working out way through a deadly virus the situation seems okay.
Coronavirus - New Zealand