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All this hoohaa about covid. going off sweedish numbers and open boarders 0 social policy pre vaccination and post vaccination over 2 years we would have had maybe 7000 deaths across 2 years.
so 3500 with a herd immunity policy. Very rough model i know.But covid is likely to lessen in effect as time goes on. now justify the cost to benefit ratio. young men in their prime killing themselves, vs a avst majority of sick aged care people.
if were hell bent on saving everyone and ensuring everyone lives as long as possible then id say suicide prevention is very much important
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@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
All this hoohaa about covid. going off sweedish numbers and open boarders 0 social policy pre vaccination and post vaccination over 2 years we would have had maybe 7000 deaths across 2 years.
so 3500 with a herd immunity policy. Very rough model i know.But covid is likely to lessen in effect as time goes on. now justify the cost to benefit ratio. young men in their prime killing themselves, vs a avst majority of sick aged care people.
if were hell bent on saving everyone and ensuring everyone lives as long as possible then id say suicide prevention is very much important
I'm not saying it isn't important. Is it more important that the raft of other things that take peoples lives that are well funded? I don't know.
Being passionate about a cause doesn't mean the cause is any more or less important than any other.
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@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
All this hoohaa about covid. going off sweedish numbers and open boarders 0 social policy pre vaccination and post vaccination over 2 years we would have had maybe 7000 deaths across 2 years.
so 3500 with a herd immunity policy. Very rough model i know.But covid is likely to lessen in effect as time goes on. now justify the cost to benefit ratio. young men in their prime killing themselves, vs a avst majority of sick aged care people.
if were hell bent on saving everyone and ensuring everyone lives as long as possible then id say suicide prevention is very much important
I'm not saying it isn't important. Is it more important that the raft of other things that take peoples lives that are well funded? I don't know.
Being passionate about a cause doesn't mean the cause is any more or less important than any other.
The avoidable loss of life bumps up the ranking, surely? Or are you just being contrarian?
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
All this hoohaa about covid. going off sweedish numbers and open boarders 0 social policy pre vaccination and post vaccination over 2 years we would have had maybe 7000 deaths across 2 years.
so 3500 with a herd immunity policy. Very rough model i know.But covid is likely to lessen in effect as time goes on. now justify the cost to benefit ratio. young men in their prime killing themselves, vs a avst majority of sick aged care people.
if were hell bent on saving everyone and ensuring everyone lives as long as possible then id say suicide prevention is very much important
I'm not saying it isn't important. Is it more important that the raft of other things that take peoples lives that are well funded? I don't know.
Being passionate about a cause doesn't mean the cause is any more or less important than any other.
The avoidable loss of life bumps up the ranking, surely? Or are you just being contrarian?
Definitely not being contrarian (or not intending to) It's something I am aware of but not passionate about to solve.
I am more passionate about full funding for Westpac Helicopters, surf life savers and Ambo's etc. I think it's crazy that these things rely on charity to exist.
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@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
All this hoohaa about covid. going off sweedish numbers and open boarders 0 social policy pre vaccination and post vaccination over 2 years we would have had maybe 7000 deaths across 2 years.
so 3500 with a herd immunity policy. Very rough model i know.But covid is likely to lessen in effect as time goes on. now justify the cost to benefit ratio. young men in their prime killing themselves, vs a avst majority of sick aged care people.
if were hell bent on saving everyone and ensuring everyone lives as long as possible then id say suicide prevention is very much important
I'm not saying it isn't important. Is it more important that the raft of other things that take peoples lives that are well funded? I don't know.
Being passionate about a cause doesn't mean the cause is any more or less important than any other.
The avoidable loss of life bumps up the ranking, surely? Or are you just being contrarian?
Definitely not being contrarian (or not intending to) It's something I am aware of but not passionate about to solve.
I am more passionate about full funding for Westpac Helicopters, surf life savers and Ambo's etc. I think it's crazy that these things rely on charity to exist.
A quick google tells me 39 people drowned in 2020. I know they do more than that (my Father was involved in this area) but it gives you an idea in the difference of scale.
Over the past ten years we have had the highest, or second highest , youth suicide rate in the developed world. It's an urgent problem.
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@kirwan I know when TR Jnr was having issues following his mugging, he got counselling sessions, they were funded by the Tindall Foundation.
As to the Rescue Choppers and Ambos, it is a disgrace these 2 services do require fundraising though.
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@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
All this hoohaa about covid. going off sweedish numbers and open boarders 0 social policy pre vaccination and post vaccination over 2 years we would have had maybe 7000 deaths across 2 years.
so 3500 with a herd immunity policy. Very rough model i know.But covid is likely to lessen in effect as time goes on. now justify the cost to benefit ratio. young men in their prime killing themselves, vs a avst majority of sick aged care people.
if were hell bent on saving everyone and ensuring everyone lives as long as possible then id say suicide prevention is very much important
I'm not saying it isn't important. Is it more important that the raft of other things that take peoples lives that are well funded? I don't know.
Being passionate about a cause doesn't mean the cause is any more or less important than any other.
The avoidable loss of life bumps up the ranking, surely? Or are you just being contrarian?
Definitely not being contrarian (or not intending to) It's something I am aware of but not passionate about to solve.
I am more passionate about full funding for Westpac Helicopters, surf life savers and Ambo's etc. I think it's crazy that these things rely on charity to exist.
This.
Although I'm on board with funding for suicide prevention too.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
All this hoohaa about covid. going off sweedish numbers and open boarders 0 social policy pre vaccination and post vaccination over 2 years we would have had maybe 7000 deaths across 2 years.
so 3500 with a herd immunity policy. Very rough model i know.But covid is likely to lessen in effect as time goes on. now justify the cost to benefit ratio. young men in their prime killing themselves, vs a avst majority of sick aged care people.
if were hell bent on saving everyone and ensuring everyone lives as long as possible then id say suicide prevention is very much important
I'm not saying it isn't important. Is it more important that the raft of other things that take peoples lives that are well funded? I don't know.
Being passionate about a cause doesn't mean the cause is any more or less important than any other.
The avoidable loss of life bumps up the ranking, surely? Or are you just being contrarian?
Definitely not being contrarian (or not intending to) It's something I am aware of but not passionate about to solve.
I am more passionate about full funding for Westpac Helicopters, surf life savers and Ambo's etc. I think it's crazy that these things rely on charity to exist.
A quick google tells me 39 people drowned in 2020. I know they do more than that (my Father was involved in this area) but it gives you an idea in the difference of scale.
Over the past ten years we have had the highest, or second highest , youth suicide rate in the developed world. It's an urgent problem.
I wonder what would happen to death rates if we didn't have Westpac chopper, Ambo's and Surf Lifesavers? If people stopped giving to those charities?
Perhaps Mike needs to stop writing letter to the PM and start a massive charity campaign to get funds, like these other charities do.
If people really want to support it, it will fund itself. Otherwise it just isn't important enough to people
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@hooroo I think he does, I Am Hope?
I think one issue with suicide/mental health, is there are numerous organisations all vying for the funding and donation $'s, whereas St Johns are nationwide single organisation, the Choppers are more regionalised, although Westpac run alot of fundraising.
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo I think he does, I Am Hope?
I think one issue with suicide/mental health, is there are numerous organisations all vying for the funding and donation $'s, whereas St Johns are nationwide single organisation, the Choppers are more regionalised, although Westpac run alot of fundraising.
Yes he does have the charity, I was saying that his focus should be in charity work for that rather than relying on Govt handouts.
All those said charities need to get funding from public that wish to support it. Just like Mike and his charity. All charities compete for funding whether similarly aligned or otherwise
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@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo I think he does, I Am Hope?
I think one issue with suicide/mental health, is there are numerous organisations all vying for the funding and donation $'s, whereas St Johns are nationwide single organisation, the Choppers are more regionalised, although Westpac run alot of fundraising.
Yes he does have the charity, I was saying that his focus should be in charity work for that rather than relying on Govt handouts.
All those said charities need to get funding from public that wish to support it. Just like Mike and his charity. All charities compete for funding whether similarly aligned or otherwise
That's missing the point. This is a missing aspect of mental health treatment in the system, it shouldn't be charity lead it should be part of the system.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo I think he does, I Am Hope?
I think one issue with suicide/mental health, is there are numerous organisations all vying for the funding and donation $'s, whereas St Johns are nationwide single organisation, the Choppers are more regionalised, although Westpac run alot of fundraising.
Yes he does have the charity, I was saying that his focus should be in charity work for that rather than relying on Govt handouts.
All those said charities need to get funding from public that wish to support it. Just like Mike and his charity. All charities compete for funding whether similarly aligned or otherwise
That's missing the point. This is a missing aspect of mental health treatment in the system, it shouldn't be charity lead it should be part of the system.
I'm not sure that is the point.
Why specifically should the health system fund this over initial responders? They are all part of the health system too.,
What other diseases aren't specifically funded? Should some cancer treatments receive more funding than this? Why is the a priority of all those cancer treatments that aren't funded?
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@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo I think he does, I Am Hope?
I think one issue with suicide/mental health, is there are numerous organisations all vying for the funding and donation $'s, whereas St Johns are nationwide single organisation, the Choppers are more regionalised, although Westpac run alot of fundraising.
Yes he does have the charity, I was saying that his focus should be in charity work for that rather than relying on Govt handouts.
All those said charities need to get funding from public that wish to support it. Just like Mike and his charity. All charities compete for funding whether similarly aligned or otherwise
That's missing the point. This is a missing aspect of mental health treatment in the system, it shouldn't be charity lead it should be part of the system.
I'm not sure that is the point.
Why specifically should the health system fund this over initial responders? They are all part of the health system too.,
What other diseases aren't specifically funded? Should some cancer treatments receive more funding than this? Why is the a priority of all those cancer treatments that aren't funded?
We do fund many cancer treatments, not sure what you mean here. For the past 20/30 years there has been a big drop in mental health funding and we are reaping the "rewards" of that.
King is highlighting a gap in funding, has provided a model that has proven results, and is asking for a tiny slice of the pie to make a difference. This is exactly how we should be solving all sorts of problems.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo I think he does, I Am Hope?
I think one issue with suicide/mental health, is there are numerous organisations all vying for the funding and donation $'s, whereas St Johns are nationwide single organisation, the Choppers are more regionalised, although Westpac run alot of fundraising.
Yes he does have the charity, I was saying that his focus should be in charity work for that rather than relying on Govt handouts.
All those said charities need to get funding from public that wish to support it. Just like Mike and his charity. All charities compete for funding whether similarly aligned or otherwise
That's missing the point. This is a missing aspect of mental health treatment in the system, it shouldn't be charity lead it should be part of the system.
I'm not sure that is the point.
Why specifically should the health system fund this over initial responders? They are all part of the health system too.,
What other diseases aren't specifically funded? Should some cancer treatments receive more funding than this? Why is the a priority of all those cancer treatments that aren't funded?
We do fund many cancer treatments, not sure what you mean here. For the past 20/30 years there has been a big drop in mental health funding and we are reaping the "rewards" of that.
King is highlighting a gap in funding, has provided a model that has proven results, and is asking for a tiny slice of the pie to make a difference. This is exactly how we should be solving all sorts of problems.
There is a lot of cancer treatment unfunded.
I don't believe mental health is more of a priority than anything suggested above for the sake of 350 deaths per year? Or is it 700? Either way, I don't see it as important in isolation.
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@hooroo the mental health aspect is wider than suicides though.
I think going forward, post-covid (if we have a post covid period) there are going to be more issues.
I think it is wrong they focus on the covid numbers every day and the money pumped into covid, while other areas of our health sector go well under funded.
I was talking to a nurse yesterday and some of what she was talking about in her niche was heart breaking.
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo the mental health aspect is wider than suicides though.
I think going forward, post-covid (if we have a post covid period) there are going to be more issues.
I think it is wrong they focus on the covid numbers every day and the money pumped into covid, while other areas of our health sector go well under funded.
I was talking to a nurse yesterday and some of what she was talking about in her niche was heart breaking.
It sure is. Much wider. I'm not suggesting otherwise.
I don't believe it is as important as a number of other unfunded causes.
If people really cared, they would donate to it heavily.
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@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo Just trying to understand your stance here, are you happy with the 50 billion on covid ?
I'm neither happy nor unhappy about it. The covid spend isn't what I'm talking about here.
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@hooroo its a spend based on reducing death. I'm just trying to understand your position on things.
Its hard to really judge what a spend on mental health could produce in terms of deaths per dollar.
But if your involved on these decisons thats what it should be based on loosely. Deaths/Age per dollar.
For example if we could save all 700 per year then its definitiely worth the funding is it not?
Also the "if people cared" line, should we fund all causes like this or is there some kind of reasoning you apply to that.
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@muddyriver said in NZ Politics:
@hooroo its a spend based on reducing death. I'm just trying to understand your position on things.
Its hard to really judge what a spend on mental health could produce in terms of deaths per dollar.
But if your involved on these decisons thats what it should be based on loosely. Deaths/Age per dollar.
For example if we could save all 700 per year then its definitiely worth the funding is it not?
Also the "if people cared" line, should we fund all causes like this or is there some kind of reasoning you apply to that.
Just picking your if we could save all 700 comment, then why aren't ambulances funded within our health system. Imagine the deaths without them?
My stance that you are keen on understanding for some reason is that I don't believe Mental health is more important than anything suggested above so why fund it over anything else suggested.
NZ Politics