New Lynn knife attack
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@canefan NZ doesn't deport people into likely murder/genocide, and if he was a resident for a long time, that makes it close to impossible as well.
It's also extremely difficult to write laws to criminalize one person planning a crime - conspiracy is a known concept (2 or more people planning criminal activities) as is incitement (1 person attempting to convince another to commit a crime), but criminalizing a lone nutter who takes no steps other than buying a knife is seriously prone to overreach by the police later.
Imagine a situation where someone is convicted and sentenced to 5 years because they spew hate online who then bought a hunting knife. The proposed hate speech legislation has been absolutely panned - getting this wrong would be that on steroids.
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@donsteppa said in New Lynn knife attack:
@canefan said in New Lynn knife attack:
FFS. The guy was on a student visa. He was recently in jail for possession of ISIS material and was under high-level surveillance. What does it take to deport someone?
From the reporting so far that’s the visa he initially arrived on. We find out tomorrow what visa (or residency status) he was on by 2016.
Agreed with this. Just because he came here on a student visa doesn't mean that's what he remained on. My bet is maybe an asylum/refugee visa (I have no clue if that's true or not). Plenty of Tamil left Sri Lanka in the 2000s after after Civil War ended.
Jacinda alluded it was hard to send him home, that is one likely reason why
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@godder said in New Lynn knife attack:
@canefan NZ doesn't deport people into likely murder/genocide, and if he was a resident for a long time, that makes it close to impossible as well.
It's also extremely difficult to write laws to criminalize one person planning a crime - conspiracy is a known concept (2 or more people planning criminal activities) as is incitement (1 person attempting to convince another to commit a crime), but criminalizing a lone nutter who takes no steps other than buying a knife is seriously prone to overreach by the police later.
Imagine a situation where someone is convicted and sentenced to 5 years because they spew hate online who then bought a hunting knife. The proposed hate speech legislation has been absolutely panned - getting this wrong would be that on steroids.
My old man told me that he tried to leave the country but was refused (and arrested). Is that true? If so, who is the fuck-knuckle who needs an uppercut?
Edit: Seems so, according to NY Times
Ms. Ardern said on Saturday that the man had been arrested at the Auckland airport in 2017 on suspicion of planning to travel to Syria to join the Islamic State militant group, which then controlled parts of Syria and Iraq.
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@godder said in New Lynn knife attack:
@canefan NZ doesn't deport people into likely murder/genocide, and if he was a resident for a long time, that makes it close to impossible as well.
It's also extremely difficult to write laws to criminalize one person planning a crime - conspiracy is a known concept (2 or more people planning criminal activities) as is incitement (1 person attempting to convince another to commit a crime), but criminalizing a lone nutter who takes no steps other than buying a knife is seriously prone to overreach by the police later.
Imagine a situation where someone is convicted and sentenced to 5 years because they spew hate online who then bought a hunting knife. The proposed hate speech legislation has been absolutely panned - getting this wrong would be that on steroids.
I kind of would like to disagree, but I agree.
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@aucklandwarlord said in New Lynn knife attack:
@donsteppa said in New Lynn knife attack:
@canefan said in New Lynn knife attack:
FFS. The guy was on a student visa. He was recently in jail for possession of ISIS material and was under high-level surveillance. What does it take to deport someone?
From the reporting so far that’s the visa he initially arrived on. We find out tomorrow what visa (or residency status) he was on by 2016.
Agreed with this. Just because he came here on a student visa doesn't mean that's what he remained on. My bet is maybe an asylum/refugee visa (I have no clue if that's true or not). Plenty of Tamil left Sri Lanka in the 2000s after after Civil War ended.
Jacinda alluded it was hard to send him home, that is one likely reason why
Seems Tamils are generally Hindu, and the beef was between the Buddists and Hindu Tamils.
Muslims make up just under 10% of the population.
What is remarkable to me from that wikipedia entry is the percentage of the population who claim to have a faith.
Not many atheists in Sri Lanka.
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@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
My old man told me that he tried to leave the country but was refused (and arrested). Is that true? If so, who is the fuck-knuckle who needs an uppercut?
Most Western/allied/OECD nations detained people who planned or attempted to travel offshore to join Isis. Including Japan from a quick Google.
We find out soon about his visa or residency status. In the meantime, I imagine there would have been a lot of clamouring for uppercuts if a "New Zealander"or "New Zealand resident"showed up in Isis footage in 2017 committing atrocities if that law had been ignored at the border.
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@aucklandwarlord said in New Lynn knife attack:
@donsteppa said in New Lynn knife attack:
@canefan said in New Lynn knife attack:
FFS. The guy was on a student visa. He was recently in jail for possession of ISIS material and was under high-level surveillance. What does it take to deport someone?
From the reporting so far that’s the visa he initially arrived on. We find out tomorrow what visa (or residency status) he was on by 2016.
Agreed with this. Just because he came here on a student visa doesn't mean that's what he remained on. My bet is maybe an asylum/refugee visa (I have no clue if that's true or not). Plenty of Tamil left Sri Lanka in the 2000s after after Civil War ended.
Jacinda alluded it was hard to send him home, that is one likely reason why
Yep, it'll be interesting... on the one hand he has been referred to as a "Sri Lankan National" in a few media reports. But, I see there were seven Sri Lankans included in refugee and protection approvals by nationality in 2013/14, so it might fit the known timeframe too. (Source: https://www.immigration.govt.nz/documents/statistics/statistics-refugee-and-protection.pdf)
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@donsteppa said in New Lynn knife attack:
@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
My old man told me that he tried to leave the country but was refused (and arrested). Is that true? If so, who is the fuck-knuckle who needs an uppercut?
Most Western/allied/OECD nations detained people who planned or attempted to travel offshore to join Isis. Including Japan from a quick Google.
We find out soon about his visa or residency status. In the meantime, I imagine there would have been a lot of clamouring for uppercuts if a "New Zealander"or "New Zealand resident"showed up in Isis footage in 2017 committing atrocities if that law had been ignored at the border.
From your quick google was that Japanese residents or Japanese citizens?
The two are very different.
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@booboo said in New Lynn knife attack:
Not many atheists in Sri Lanka.
I went there twice on holiday - 2012 and 2019. Amazing place. They also have a bit of a catholic presence too. Great people, incredible hosts as well. Highly recommended. They love their cricket too, obviously.
We went up into the north in 2019 which was traditionally a Tamil stronghold. Never felt unsafe once - the people thought my blonde haired kids were some type of deity. We got swarmed at remote locations by locals wanting photos of the blonde kids. Some local Tamil lady also saved my wife from some rabid monkey while I was busy laughing - Mrs AWL still brings that up, funnily enough.
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@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
@donsteppa said in New Lynn knife attack:
@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
My old man told me that he tried to leave the country but was refused (and arrested). Is that true? If so, who is the fuck-knuckle who needs an uppercut?
Most Western/allied/OECD nations detained people who planned or attempted to travel offshore to join Isis. Including Japan from a quick Google.
We find out soon about his visa or residency status. In the meantime, I imagine there would have been a lot of clamouring for uppercuts if a "New Zealander"or "New Zealand resident"showed up in Isis footage in 2017 committing atrocities if that law had been ignored at the border.
From your quick google was that Japanese residents or Japanese citizens?
The two are very different.
This is a far as I got while also checking Oz and the US etc. The first one is paywalled so this is as far as I got: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/tag/isis/
Man, 31, referred to prosecutors over attempt to join Islamic State while at Hokkaido University
A 31-year-old man was referred to prosecutors Wednesday for allegedly preparing to travel to Syria to join the Islamic State militant group in 2014 while he was a student at Hokkaido University, Tokyo police and other sources said. The police also sent investigative papers to ...
Not sure if this guy got sent back from Turkey: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/japanese-aspiring-jihadist-detained-turkey-1.5422192
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Now revealed he was a Tamil refugee claimant who was in the tedious process of having his refugee status unwound by the courts and tribunals.
It's a real long process full of appeal rights to unpick that stuff. Not uncommon for someone to arrive on a temporary visa and then claim, hence arriving as a student.
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@donsteppa said in New Lynn knife attack:
@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
@donsteppa said in New Lynn knife attack:
@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
My old man told me that he tried to leave the country but was refused (and arrested). Is that true? If so, who is the fuck-knuckle who needs an uppercut?
Most Western/allied/OECD nations detained people who planned or attempted to travel offshore to join Isis. Including Japan from a quick Google.
We find out soon about his visa or residency status. In the meantime, I imagine there would have been a lot of clamouring for uppercuts if a "New Zealander"or "New Zealand resident"showed up in Isis footage in 2017 committing atrocities if that law had been ignored at the border.
From your quick google was that Japanese residents or Japanese citizens?
The two are very different.
This is a far as I got while also checking Oz and the US etc. The first one is paywalled so this is as far as I got: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/tag/isis/
Man, 31, referred to prosecutors over attempt to join Islamic State while at Hokkaido University
A 31-year-old man was referred to prosecutors Wednesday for allegedly preparing to travel to Syria to join the Islamic State militant group in 2014 while he was a student at Hokkaido University, Tokyo police and other sources said. The police also sent investigative papers to ...
Not sure if this guy got sent back from Turkey: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/japanese-aspiring-jihadist-detained-turkey-1.5422192
I'll bet all the money in my pocket that he was either locked up or sent home, or otherwise didn't need following 24/7 for the next goddamn how many years.
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@aucklandwarlord said in New Lynn knife attack:
Now revealed he was a Tamil refugee claimant who was in the tedious process of having his refugee status unwound by the courts and tribunals.
It's a real long process full of appeal rights to unpick that stuff. Not uncommon for someone to arrive on a temporary visa and then claim, hence arriving as a student.
Ah, so he was our responsibility to stop at the border, as tempting as it would have been to see the swine vanish. Quoting in part:
Ardern: Ministers had sought advice on deporting terrorist since 2018
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has provided further information on steps Immigration New Zealand had taken over several years to try and have the man who turned a supermarket into a scene of terror deported from the country.
Shortly after suppression orders were lifted which had previously meant media couldn't report Ahamed Aathil Mohamed Samsudeen's identification, Ardern said facets of the process had been "frustrating".
Samsudeen arrived in New Zealand in October 2011. Shortly after he made a claim for refugee status which was declined by Immigration New Zealand.
But that was successfully appealed to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal, and he was granted refugee status in December 2013.
"In 2016 the terrorist came to the attention of the police and the NZSIS," Ardern said.
"In the course of these investigations, Immigration New Zealand were made aware of information that led them to believe the individual's refugee status was fraudulently obtained. The process was started to cancel his refugee status, and with it, his right to stay in New Zealand.
"In February of 2019, Immigration New Zealand cancelled his refugee status. He was served with deportation liability notices. In April, he appealed against his deportation to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal. He was still in prison at this time, and facing criminal charges. For a number of reasons, the deportation appeal could not proceed until after the conclusion of the criminal trial in May 2021."
Ardern said agencies also became concerned about "the risk this individual posed to the community".
"They also knew he may be released from prison, and that his appeal through the Tribunal, which was stopping his deportation, may take some time
"Immigration New Zealand explored whether the Immigration Act might allow them to detain the individual while his deportation appeal was heard.
"It was incredibly disappointing and frustrating when legal advice came back to say this wasn't an option.
"A person can only be detained under the Immigration Act for the purpose of deportation. Immigration New Zealand was required to consider whether deportation was likely to proceed. That meant making an assessment of what the tribunal would likely find. Crown laws advice to immigration New Zealand was that the individual was likely to be considered a "protected person" because of the status of the country from which he had travelled, and likely treatment on return. Protected people cannot be deported from New Zealand. After receiving this advice Immigration New Zealand determined they could not detain the individual while he waited for his appeal."
Soon after he was released from prison and the police monitoring and surveillance of Samsudeen begun.
On August 26, the Immigration and Protection Tribunal hearing was rescheduled.
"At the time of the terrorist attack, the offenders attempt to overturn the deportation decision was still ongoing," Ardern said. "This has been a frustrating process.
"Since 2018 Ministers have been seeking advice on our ability to deport this individual."
Ardern also said she had met with officials and "expressed my concern that the law could allow someone to remain here who obtained their immigration status fraudulently and posed a threat to our national security".
"Ultimately these timelines show that Immigration New Zealand from the beginning have sought to deport this individual, and were right to do so." Ardern said.
So add the Immigration Act 2009 to the list of laws that need some revision.
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@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
@anonymous said in New Lynn knife attack:
@canefan said in New Lynn knife attack:
His internet search history and bookmarks included heroes of Isis, Islamic State dress, and New Zealand prison clothes and food, according to Stuff.
Now I'm curious as to what clothes and food they get but I can't google it or I'll end up on some sort of watchlist!
I'm not sure why Stuff thinks that's anywhere near as noteworthy as the first two.
I imagine if you were planning to commit a crime you might want to know whether you'd be getting bacon for breakfast every morning in jail.
Fortunately the cops had other ideas. In the footage they showed in the supermarket I heard a minimum of 10 shots. Cheaper than life imprisonment
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@kirwan said in New Lynn knife attack:
So basically our system is set up to look after everyone but the people living in this country.
Once he wasn’t a real refugee he should have been deported, no matter how dangerous the source country is.
Is Sri Lanka even troubled by the Sinhalese/Tamil troubles nowadays?
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@kirwan said in New Lynn knife attack:
So basically our system is set up to look after everyone but the people living in this country.
Once he wasn’t a real refugee he should have been deported, no matter how dangerous the source country is.
It's incredible, isn't it. Due process shouldn't allow this shit to happen.
Those who went against the original decision to give this fluffybunny refugee status must be sleeping well tonight.
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@mick-gold-coast-qld said in New Lynn knife attack:
snip snip
Am I the only one who thinks this, or is she kinda hot?