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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Our medical system couldn't even deal with spikes in normal Winter illness, let alone a full blown covid19 outbreak, that is why we lockdown and enforce MIQ. As we all know, no one seems to want to force people to have the vaccine (believe me, I'm all for enforcing it). What we need is to vaccinate every person that wants to be vaccinated as soon as possible.
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
I'd say we see how this one pans out to answer that question, especially when it gets extended.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
I'd say we see how this one pans out to answer that question, especially when it gets extended.
There have been no reports of people storming the streets in protest. Yet
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
I'd say we see how this one pans out to answer that question, especially when it gets extended.
I think there'll be less tolerance for the government than a year ago. We've seen multiple border issues that were preventable or looked reallly dodgy from the outside. The longer we delayed the vaccination programme, the higher the risk that something got over the border.
What I'm still struggling with is how contagious this bastard it. 3-5 seconds across a hallway gets you the virus, but living with or travelling with someone doesn't? I can't easily reconcile those outcomes.
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
That wasn't my take of the plan (such as it was) last week, it seems to be a plan of 'buy enough time to get everyone vaccinated who wants to be, and then you take your chances'. Unfortunately "front of the queue" (Chris Hipkins) for vaccines turned out to be one of the slowest in the OECD, but another 2-4 months and it looks like we're there.
If there's any sort of silver lining out of this Level 4, maybe it will give the vaccine hesitant/slack a bit of a nudge.
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
That wasn't my take of the plan (such as it was) last week, it seems to be a plan of 'buy enough time to get everyone vaccinated who wants to be, and then you take your chances'. Unfortunately "front of the queue" (Chris Hipkins) for vaccines turned out to be one of the slowest in the OECD, but another 2-4 months and it looks like we're there.
If there's any sort of silver lining out of this Level 4, maybe it will give the vaccine hesitant/slack a bit of a nudge.
But one everyone’s vaccinated who wants to be…then the govt has to accept that opening up the country means those that aren’t vaccinated risk getting infected. Will jacinda accept that??
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
That wasn't my take of the plan (such as it was) last week, it seems to be a plan of 'buy enough time to get everyone vaccinated who wants to be, and then you take your chances'. Unfortunately "front of the queue" (Chris Hipkins) for vaccines turned out to be one of the slowest in the OECD, but another 2-4 months and it looks like we're there.
If there's any sort of silver lining out of this Level 4, maybe it will give the vaccine hesitant/slack a bit of a nudge.
But one everyone’s vaccinated who wants to be…then the govt has to accept that opening up the country means those that aren’t vaccinated risk getting infected. Will jacinda accept that??
She said a week or so ago that opening up in 2022 was the plan
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I'm annoyed because I could get my jab tomorrow but now I can't. I like the idea of "driveby" jabbing. I usually have my arm out the window of the ute so I just have to cruise past the local medical centre like it was a Maccas. Job / jab done.
They are actually talking about doing that after the 48 hour hiatus.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Our medical system couldn't even deal with spikes in normal Winter illness, let alone a full blown covid19 outbreak, that is why we lockdown and enforce MIQ. As we all know, no one seems to want to force people to have the vaccine (believe me, I'm all for enforcing it). What we need is to vaccinate every person that wants to be vaccinated as soon as possible.
This is what kills me, and Oz is the same. How much has Covid and these lockdowns cost us? And yet what have we spent on improving our healthcare system? Or even building fit-for-purpose MIQ? It feels like we are exactly where we were 18 months ago.
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@billy-tell well if the majority of NZ get vaccinated, that should be an indicator as to her next step, given she is in the business of popularity...sure some with immune deficiencies cant get vaccinated, but plenty would if they could
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We need to accept the fact that our lives as we knew them before covid19 aren't going to be the same for some time, I've heard from a pretty reliable source that current estimates suggest it may be up to 5 years before we are travelling far abroad for a simple family holiday, such is the threat posed by covid and its rapid mutations. Which totally sucks
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm annoyed because I could get my jab tomorrow but now I can't. I like the idea of "driveby" jabbing. I usually have my arm out the window of the ute so I just have to cruise past the local medical centre like it was a Maccas. Job / jab done.
They are actually talking about doing that after the 48 hour hiatus.
48 hours to get the setup right and you should be all go
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
That wasn't my take of the plan (such as it was) last week, it seems to be a plan of 'buy enough time to get everyone vaccinated who wants to be, and then you take your chances'. Unfortunately "front of the queue" (Chris Hipkins) for vaccines turned out to be one of the slowest in the OECD, but another 2-4 months and it looks like we're there.
If there's any sort of silver lining out of this Level 4, maybe it will give the vaccine hesitant/slack a bit of a nudge.
But one everyone’s vaccinated who wants to be…then the govt has to accept that opening up the country means those that aren’t vaccinated risk getting infected. Will jacinda accept that??
Yes.
In my opinion they should be told that if you aren't vaccinated then you don't get hospitilisation or respiratory / ventilator assistance. You made your choice, live / or die with it.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Our medical system couldn't even deal with spikes in normal Winter illness, let alone a full blown covid19 outbreak, that is why we lockdown and enforce MIQ. As we all know, no one seems to want to force people to have the vaccine (believe me, I'm all for enforcing it). What we need is to vaccinate every person that wants to be vaccinated as soon as possible.
This is what kills me, and Oz is the same. How much has Covid and these lockdowns cost us? And yet what have we spent on improving our healthcare system? Or even building fit-for-purpose MIQ? It feels like we are exactly where we were 18 months ago.
Healthcare is expensive. It takes years to upgrade or build new facilities in NZ
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Our medical system couldn't even deal with spikes in normal Winter illness, let alone a full blown covid19 outbreak, that is why we lockdown and enforce MIQ. As we all know, no one seems to want to force people to have the vaccine (believe me, I'm all for enforcing it). What we need is to vaccinate every person that wants to be vaccinated as soon as possible.
This is what kills me, and Oz is the same. How much has Covid and these lockdowns cost us? And yet what have we spent on improving our healthcare system? Or even building fit-for-purpose MIQ? It feels like we are exactly where we were 18 months ago.
Healthcare is expensive. It takes years to upgrade or build new facilities in NZ
That's a massive cop-out. It takes too long so let's not start? May as well not build new roads either.
It would not be hard to build proper MIQ outside Auckland CBD. How many ventilators do we have?
It's been 18mths, what's been achieved?
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
That wasn't my take of the plan (such as it was) last week, it seems to be a plan of 'buy enough time to get everyone vaccinated who wants to be, and then you take your chances'. Unfortunately "front of the queue" (Chris Hipkins) for vaccines turned out to be one of the slowest in the OECD, but another 2-4 months and it looks like we're there.
If there's any sort of silver lining out of this Level 4, maybe it will give the vaccine hesitant/slack a bit of a nudge.
But one everyone’s vaccinated who wants to be…then the govt has to accept that opening up the country means those that aren’t vaccinated risk getting infected. Will jacinda accept that??
Yes.
In my opinion they should be told that if you aren't vaccinated then you don't get hospitilisation or respiratory / ventilator assistance. You made your choice, live / or die with it.
You know that would never float, but yes I agree. Funny how when there is a measles outbreak or such incident, all the anti-vaxx parents come out of the woodwork frantically wanting medical attention
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Our medical system couldn't even deal with spikes in normal Winter illness, let alone a full blown covid19 outbreak, that is why we lockdown and enforce MIQ. As we all know, no one seems to want to force people to have the vaccine (believe me, I'm all for enforcing it). What we need is to vaccinate every person that wants to be vaccinated as soon as possible.
This is what kills me, and Oz is the same. How much has Covid and these lockdowns cost us? And yet what have we spent on improving our healthcare system? Or even building fit-for-purpose MIQ? It feels like we are exactly where we were 18 months ago.
Healthcare is expensive. It takes years to upgrade or build new facilities in NZ
That's a massive cop-out. It takes too long so let's not start? May as well not build new roads either.
It would not be hard to build proper MIQ outside Auckland CBD. How many ventilators do we have?
It's been 18mths, what's been achieved?
Don't make the mistake of thinking I don't agree with you. Just saying that the wheels of bureaucracy are painfully slow. It is a criticism not a justification
Coronavirus - New Zealand