-
@kirwan that there has been been a hearing and subsequent court order, its not just he called his son "she" and got arrested, if you do something after specifically being told by a court not too...
and it said he started the litigation to stop his son transitioning
-
@crazy-horse said in Joe Wheeler:
@kirwan sounds like the punishment is for going against a court order rather than the actual words? Judges hate it when you don't obey them. Sad it got to that point though.
Yes, but the issue is the court order in the first place right? The compelled speech argument that Peterson was talking about.
-
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@kirwan that there has been been a hearing and subsequent court order, its not just he called his son "she" and got arrested, if you done something after specifically being told by a court not too...
and it said he started the litigation to stop his son transitioning
look at how many times you done wrong there!
he
his son "she"
he
his son -
@taniwharugby my understanding is the individual has transitions from female to male and is now using male pronouns hence why referring to him as a "she" was the bad thing
-
@kiwiwomble did you read the article? We don't like that sort of behaviour in these parts.
-
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@taniwharugby my understanding is the individual has transitions from female to male and is now using male pronouns hence why referring to him as a "she" was the bad thing
A child transitioning, with "guidence" from her school, who also suggested hormone treatment. That's bad enough, but the issue is that her father can be found in contempt of court for misusing a pronoun.
Literally Orwellion.
-
@kirwan and support from therapist and his mother and whatever medical professional will administer hormone treatment all of which the court obviously thought was enough hence the court order
Its not just a child going rogue but the sounds of it. And even if all that is "wrong"...being surprised to be arrested when breaking a court order....is a bit silly
-
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@kirwan and support from therapist and his mother and whatever medical professional will administer hormone treatment all of which the court obviously thought was enough hence the court order
Its not just a child going rogue but the sounds of it. And even if all that is "wrong"...being surprised to be arrested when breaking a court order....is a bit silly
Are you studiously missing the point for a reason other than boredom?
-
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
-
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
Two issues in play, one about the ethics of transitioning children to a different gender with the use of hormones and surgery.
Second is the Orwellian nature of a government enacting a law with compelled speech, and a court putting people in jail to enforce it. I've been bleating on about this one, even though I think the first is child abuse.
Both are very troubling.
-
Miss 12 was telling us how one of her friends who had 'come out' as being 'Bi' last year, fancies another girl who has 'come out' as 'Bi' too.
-
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
Two issues in play, one about the ethics of transitioning children to a different gender with the use of hormones and surgery.
Second is the Orwellian nature of a government enacting a law with compelled speech, and a court putting people in jail to enforce it. I've been bleating on about this one, even though I think the first is child abuse.
Both are very troubling.
All of it is just so wrong.
I imagine we will look back at the whole transitioning children and giving them hormone blockers with regret and wonder how that madness ever came to pass. It actually boggles the mind that anyone at all thinks it is a good idea.
-
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
Two issues in play, one about the ethics of transitioning children to a different gender with the use of hormones and surgery.
Second is the Orwellian nature of a government enacting a law with compelled speech, and a court putting people in jail to enforce it. I've been bleating on about this one, even though I think the first is child abuse.
Both are very troubling.
thats how i understood things, i guess i just sit in a different place when viewing these "ethics"
I agree it is an extreme use of a court order, i just dont have as much sympathy for someone ignoring something like that, he was told what would happen, if he was doing it deliberately to make the point of how extreme it is then fair play
I think the oversimplification at the start set me off wrong, its not like canada has banned all pronouns, this is a very specific situation with years of history associated
-
@taniwharugby said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
Miss 12 was telling us how one of her friends who had 'come out' as being 'Bi' last year, fancies another girl who has 'come out' as 'Bi' too.
Happening at my kids school too.
-
In the wee area that I work in we have three kids aged around 13 years who are transitioning and things are pretty fucked for them. All three are in and out of psych wards, two have parents that cannot fathom what the hell is going on with their kid and there are constant disturbances that we have to sort out. The other one comes from a mother who has mental health problems of her own so doesn't appear overly fussed. All three keep threatening to kill themselves.
-
@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
Two issues in play, one about the ethics of transitioning children to a different gender with the use of hormones and surgery.
Second is the Orwellian nature of a government enacting a law with compelled speech, and a court putting people in jail to enforce it. I've been bleating on about this one, even though I think the first is child abuse.
Both are very troubling.
thats how i understood things, i guess i just sit in a different place when viewing these "ethics"
I agree it is an extreme use of a court order, i just dont have as much sympathy for someone ignoring something like that, he was told what would happen, if he was doing it deliberately to make the point of how extreme it is then fair play
I think the oversimplification at the start set me off wrong, its not like canada has banned all pronouns, this is a very specific situation with years of history associated
Who said they had banned all pronouns? Nobody.
It's a fact that they jailed a father for referring to his daughter with she/her pronouns. You may agree that the government/courts having that right, but I do not.
And history is littered with examples of people protesting against what they perceived as unjust laws. It's an ongoing discussion within society about what is acceptable.
For example, was Martin Luther King Jr. wrong to protest again segregation? That was the law of the land in his time. He also knew what would happen. Any sympathy for him?
-
@crazy-horse said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
In the wee area that I work in we have three kids aged around 13 years who are transitioning and things are pretty fucked for them. All three are in and out of psych wards, two have parents that cannot fathom what the hell is going on with their kid and there are constant disturbances that we have to sort out. The other one comes from a mother who has mental health problems of her own so doesn't appear overly fussed. All three keep threatening to kill themselves.
I have a personal opinion that some of these kids are just gay. They should be allowed to have time to come to grips with their identity (be it trans/gay/whatever) and make permanent changes to their bodies only when they are an adult.
I feel that some of this is a weird sort of prejudice about having a gay kid. Probably lots of reasons going on, but when this stuff is driven by parents or schools then alarm bells should be ringing.
-
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
Two issues in play, one about the ethics of transitioning children to a different gender with the use of hormones and surgery.
Second is the Orwellian nature of a government enacting a law with compelled speech, and a court putting people in jail to enforce it. I've been bleating on about this one, even though I think the first is child abuse.
Both are very troubling.
thats how i understood things, i guess i just sit in a different place when viewing these "ethics"
I agree it is an extreme use of a court order, i just dont have as much sympathy for someone ignoring something like that, he was told what would happen, if he was doing it deliberately to make the point of how extreme it is then fair play
I think the oversimplification at the start set me off wrong, its not like canada has banned all pronouns, this is a very specific situation with years of history associated
Who said they had banned all pronouns? Nobody.
It's a fact that they jailed a father for referring to his daughter with she/her pronouns. You may agree that the government/courts having that right, but I do not.
And history is littered with examples of people protesting against what they perceived as unjust laws. It's an ongoing discussion within society about what is acceptable.
For example, was Martin Luther King Jr. wrong to protest again segregation? That was the law of the land in his time. He also knew what would happen. Any sympathy for him?
...i just said if he did it to make a point then fair play, good for him, as i also said its extreme
you made it sound very simple, used a pronoun and was arrested, without the history a natural assumption in my mind is he has broken some sort of law rather than a specific court order
-
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@crazy-horse said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
In the wee area that I work in we have three kids aged around 13 years who are transitioning and things are pretty fucked for them. All three are in and out of psych wards, two have parents that cannot fathom what the hell is going on with their kid and there are constant disturbances that we have to sort out. The other one comes from a mother who has mental health problems of her own so doesn't appear overly fussed. All three keep threatening to kill themselves.
I have a personal opinion that some of these kids are just gay. They should be allowed to have time to come to grips with their identity (be it trans/gay/whatever) and make permanent changes to their bodies only when they are an adult.
I feel that some of this is a weird sort of prejudice about having a gay kid. Probably lots of reasons going on, but when this stuff is driven by parents or schools then alarm bells should be ringing.
how do we know its "driven" by the school? support by and driven by are very different things
Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she"