-
I'd just like to point out that: yes I did enjoy free tertiary education and yes, I also wasted it spending all my time drinking and on other excesses, I did get arrested and convicted fighting for no fees on behalf of future generations
No need to thank me.
I do think there is a generation that got seriously shafted on fees. I also think comparisons across generations aren't valid because the whole landscape changed significantly.
-
@voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia probably right, can't say I though too hard about future repayments while I was at Uni!
I bloody did. Was the first or second year of student loans, came out with a farking telephone number. Really drove life choices - went overseas, but invested in my career working in the UK. Back then you had to pay back 1/15 a year, PLUSinterest that accrued. Not fun at all.
That said, the people getting arrested are those who refuse to engage with IRD at all. For years. You make your bed, you lie in it - I have massive sympathy for loan holders, but as someone said above - you know what you're signing up for.
I did contemplate getting married for the studenta llowance in my first year at uni. My mum would have killed me though, and I'm still not sure it wouldn't have been a good idea ...
-
@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
you know what you're signing up for.
While I don't disagree that we should all have known what we were signing up for I think financial literacy was way lower back then (compared with the current lot) and lots of us really didn't grasp the consequences.
-
@dogmeat said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I'd just like to point out that: yes I did enjoy free tertiary education and yes, I also wasted it spending all my time drinking and on other excesses, I did get arrested and convicted fighting for no fees on behalf of future generations
No need to thank me.
I do think there is a generation that got seriously shafted on fees. I also think comparisons across generations aren't valid because the whole landscape changed significantly.
Its created a huge debt bubble in the states and the argument it's not far away from being something that starts to hold their economy back is getting traction there.
This guy is a former Trump offical and his idea of making it fair for people who have already paid back their loans seems decent -
@voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none. If you're concerned about overseas defaulters, then toughen up on penalties for non-payment of principal (financial or other penalties). No need to also sting them with crazy interest, you're just ensuring there is a generation nof people who will never come home
I agree. It doesnt matter where a person goes, as long as the scheme incentivizes loan holders to repay as quickly and as regularly as they can. And severely punishes those who run and hide
-
I had a 42k student loan when I graduated in 2000. 13k of that was interest, that 8% compounding from drawdown, I didn't get any kind of assistance cos my parents were too 'rich'. Year after I graduated, I went overseas and taught English, sending money home each month to pay it off. It was a shit job for a shit company but I cleared 26k of it, then the rest via NZ jobs the regular way out of my pay.
Have ZERO fucking sympathy for those who skip away and pay nothing. They are entitled assholes now having a whinge because they can't come home? Fuck off. Don't pay your debts, that's what happens. A student loan is a LOAN. Everyone else is chipping away at it, and nowadays the terms are much better than the 90s.
-
@voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none.
incentive to keep allegedly "well educated" people IN NZ so it benefits our economy?
What might be better, is to maybe allow it interest free for say 5 years post-graduation, but if you leave NZ, after that 5 years, you start getting charged interest?
I never went to Uni and have not had a Student Loan...but have mates who have, and the ones that went overseas dutifully paid thier student loans off.
-
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none.
incentive to keep allegedly "well educated" people IN NZ so it benefits our economy?
What might be better, is to maybe allow it interest free for say 5 years post-graduation, but if you leave NZ, after that 5 years, you start getting charged interest?
I never went to Uni and have not had a Student Loan...but have mates who have, and the ones that went overseas dutifully paid thier student loans off.
Funny, broadsheets like the Ferald have little interest in reporting about all of the law abiding folks that pay off their loans
-
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none.
incentive to keep allegedly "well educated" people IN NZ so it benefits our economy?
What might be better, is to maybe allow it interest free for say 5 years post-graduation, but if you leave NZ, after that 5 years, you start getting charged interest?
I never went to Uni and have not had a Student Loan...but have mates who have, and the ones that went overseas dutifully paid thier student loans off.
I don't like the whole "try to handcuff people to NZ" approach. The benefits of travelling, of working abroad, of being around different cultures, if hate to see people choose not to do that because of an interest rate differential on their student loan.
-
Literally no one is saying don't travel or work abroad or immerse yourself in different cultures. They are saying hey, if you're going to go, sort it with the IRD first and meet your legal obligations. Not fucking hard or draconian.
It is in no way fair that the NZ govt stumps up for the education, then other govts get the benefit of the taxes and knowledge. Loans must be repaid. End of.
-
@taniwharugby @Mokey You're both misunderstanding my point. The "handcuffing" point is entirely in relation to charging people who who choose to work overseas extortionate interest for that period, while allowing those who remain in NZ to benefit from zero rates.
That's a straight financial penalty for choosing to work overseas, and in my view, very bad policy.
-
@Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?
because we are awesome
-
@Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?
from 2005
Why are you keeping interest for students when they go overseas?
We want to encourage as many graduates as possible to stay in New Zealand. If
graduates are working here and making repayments on their loans, it is in our
interest to reward that.How will you ensure that graduates who are overseas will pay back their
loans?
There will be financial penalties for people who go overseas and do not make
payments. We are offering an amnesty on penalties to graduates who return to
NZ in 2006 or who enter into acceptable payment arrangements with IRD for
repayment. -
@voodoo not mis-understanding it, you see it as handcuffing, I see it as a benefit to staying/returning in/to NZ.
Some of those who left NZ, CHOSE to cease or never make payments, and as such, rightly have penalties on thier interest payments...
In NZ we are screaming out for Nurses, teachers etc, plenty of these qualified people are no longer in NZ, they left for higher wages, I am sure some of these have chosen to ignore paying off thier student loans...I always think back to when my kids were born and my experience with the people at the hospital; I would have said at least half of the people we dealt with (Dr, Nurses, anesthetist, admin staff etc) were foreigners, over half of these were British...met a number of teachers, but probably lower % who are also foreigners...so our qualified people buggar off for money, have to assume these ones come to NZ for lifestyle.
As I said above, maybe give a period of garanteed interest free period, regardless of where you are, as long as you have made an arrangement to start paying back...
@mariner4life you are an exception!
-
@Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?
I guess it comes down to whether the aim is to recoup the loan in the fastest amount of time, if they want to do that then making it easier for overseas based borrowers to pay it back is going to contribute to that.
Also, an alternate scenario is this, a mate of mine worked in NZ for 10 years after uni and paid his loan back ... he hasn't lived in NZ for 10 years now and will likely never move back. However, someone who heads overseas for 10 years to earn some cash, pays off their loan and interest, and then returns to NZ for the rest of their life is going to contribute more than my mate yet they "paid" more for their education than this bloke.
No one is saying to give overseas based loan holders a pass, just make it easier for them to pay back the money in the fastest time possible. The system is not currently geared towards that.
-
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo not mis-understanding it, you see it as handcuffing, I see it as a benefit to staying/returning in/to NZ.
Some of those who left NZ, CHOSE to cease or never make payments, and as such, rightly have penalties on thier interest payments...
In NZ we are screaming out for Nurses, teachers etc, plenty of these qualified people are no longer in NZ, they left for higher wages, I am sure some of these have chosen to ignore paying off thier student loans...I always think back to when my kids were born and my experience with the people at the hospital; I would have said at least half of the people we dealt with (Dr, Nurses, anesthetist, admin staff etc) were foreigners, over half of these were British...met a number of teachers, but probably lower % who are also foreigners...so our qualified people buggar off for money, have to assume these ones come to NZ for lifestyle.
@mariner4life you are an exception!
i am exceptional. thank you
it's not that easy though is it. Not everyone that leaves does it for mercenary reasons. Some leave for a change in lifestyle. They then build new lives, and then suddenly they have too many roots down to just come back to NZ.
I can absolutely see @Mokey s point, even if she probably said it a tad harsher than i would. However, as with most things, it's not exactly black and white.
My point is more the interest rates on student loans have always been too high, and not to market. Also a 4 year degree is pretty fucking expensive when your parents make too much to allow you to get an allowance, but don't make enough to actually pay for any of your schooling/living.
Student Loans