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@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
This is a pretty good example of how out of touch our pm is
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207207
Did you read the article or just the headline? It’s a poorly written opinion piece that probably took around 5 minutes to write.
I don’t think the reaction has been that bad (aside from the obvious people on this forum who won’t vote labour anyway, and a few right leaning journalists like hosking).
Yeah I read it. What makes it poorly written?
The title is misleading for a start.
It’s also short and full of unsubstantiated claims. Because Ardern gives a speech on how to report something correctly, it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s backtracking on anything in the report.
I’m on the fence with capital gains personally. To my untrained eye it seems that it’s pretty well supported by younger voters, I’d like to see a poll result though.
I guess I’m as biased as everyone on here though (to the other side) as I won’t vote national tho unless they drag themselves out of the dark ages with their approach to drug legislation, crime and the environment.
The last sentence is a bit odd on the environmental front , National proposed the largest marine sanctuary in the world , proposed the legislation to ban micro beads ( which labour claimed credit for) and put cameras on commercial fishing boats which this government has removed . This is Russell Norman’s take on the government and the fishing industry
I’d also say given Sopers sources he’s got a fair idea of what Labours internal polling has revealed about CGT . Apparently in her interview on new talk ZB she didn’t sound like she was particularly happy about the reaction either . I haven’t heard it yet but will listen tonight.
“Wadeable” quality rivers was a big fail from an environmental perspective (coming from a perspective of a keen fisherman and open water swimmer).
I listened to the ZB interview this morning and thought adern did ok.
Anyway... cheers kirwan for linking the poll results, I’ll have a read today.
From a practicing accountants perspective the CG tax is excellent news
I think it will take us back to the days where everyone has a family trust (which doesn’t die when a normal person does).......come and see us, for 5grand we will set up a trust and save you many more dollars down the line.Ffs . Bloody accountants.
Honestly I don’t think National were too keen to hobble one of our biggest export earners during the gfc rather than a nefarious plot to fill our rivers with cow shit .
You’ve twisted my words there.... I never said it was a plot to dirty up our rivers.
Agree with you that nationals motivation was economic , and I disagree with it (from my own selfish perpective).
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@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
This is a pretty good example of how out of touch our pm is
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207207
Did you read the article or just the headline? It’s a poorly written opinion piece that probably took around 5 minutes to write.
I don’t think the reaction has been that bad (aside from the obvious people on this forum who won’t vote labour anyway, and a few right leaning journalists like hosking).
Yeah I read it. What makes it poorly written?
The title is misleading for a start.
It’s also short and full of unsubstantiated claims. Because Ardern gives a speech on how to report something correctly, it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s backtracking on anything in the report.
I’m on the fence with capital gains personally. To my untrained eye it seems that it’s pretty well supported by younger voters, I’d like to see a poll result though.
I guess I’m as biased as everyone on here though (to the other side) as I won’t vote national tho unless they drag themselves out of the dark ages with their approach to drug legislation, crime and the environment.
The last sentence is a bit odd on the environmental front , National proposed the largest marine sanctuary in the world , proposed the legislation to ban micro beads ( which labour claimed credit for) and put cameras on commercial fishing boats which this government has removed . This is Russell Norman’s take on the government and the fishing industry
I’d also say given Sopers sources he’s got a fair idea of what Labours internal polling has revealed about CGT . Apparently in her interview on new talk ZB she didn’t sound like she was particularly happy about the reaction either . I haven’t heard it yet but will listen tonight.
“Wadeable” quality rivers was a big fail from an environmental perspective (coming from a perspective of a keen fisherman and open water swimmer).
I listened to the ZB interview this morning and thought adern did ok.
Anyway... cheers kirwan for linking the poll results, I’ll have a read today.
From a practicing accountants perspective the CG tax is excellent news
I think it will take us back to the days where everyone has a family trust (which doesn’t die when a normal person does).......come and see us, for 5grand we will set up a trust and save you many more dollars down the line.Another good point against it. The "rich pricks" that Taxinda and Cullen are targeting won't be paying it.
They will still have to pay tax when something is sold to an unrelated party.. it’s the issues around inheritance tax, succession planning etc that could potentially be avoided with the right structure.
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@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
This is a pretty good example of how out of touch our pm is
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207207
Did you read the article or just the headline? It’s a poorly written opinion piece that probably took around 5 minutes to write.
I don’t think the reaction has been that bad (aside from the obvious people on this forum who won’t vote labour anyway, and a few right leaning journalists like hosking).
Yeah I read it. What makes it poorly written?
The title is misleading for a start.
It’s also short and full of unsubstantiated claims. Because Ardern gives a speech on how to report something correctly, it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s backtracking on anything in the report.
I’m on the fence with capital gains personally. To my untrained eye it seems that it’s pretty well supported by younger voters, I’d like to see a poll result though.
I guess I’m as biased as everyone on here though (to the other side) as I won’t vote national tho unless they drag themselves out of the dark ages with their approach to drug legislation, crime and the environment.
The last sentence is a bit odd on the environmental front , National proposed the largest marine sanctuary in the world , proposed the legislation to ban micro beads ( which labour claimed credit for) and put cameras on commercial fishing boats which this government has removed . This is Russell Norman’s take on the government and the fishing industry
I’d also say given Sopers sources he’s got a fair idea of what Labours internal polling has revealed about CGT . Apparently in her interview on new talk ZB she didn’t sound like she was particularly happy about the reaction either . I haven’t heard it yet but will listen tonight.
“Wadeable” quality rivers was a big fail from an environmental perspective (coming from a perspective of a keen fisherman and open water swimmer).
I listened to the ZB interview this morning and thought adern did ok.
Anyway... cheers kirwan for linking the poll results, I’ll have a read today.
From a practicing accountants perspective the CG tax is excellent news
I think it will take us back to the days where everyone has a family trust (which doesn’t die when a normal person does).......come and see us, for 5grand we will set up a trust and save you many more dollars down the line.Ffs . Bloody accountants.
Honestly I don’t think National were too keen to hobble one of our biggest export earners during the gfc rather than a nefarious plot to fill our rivers with cow shit .
You’ve twisted my words there.... I never said it was a plot to dirty up our rivers.
Agree with you that nationals motivation was economic , and I disagree with it (from my own selfish perpective).
I never said you personally said that but when Sam Mahon builds a statue of Nick Smith taking a dump in a glass of water it’s hard not to get the impression that the narrative from Nationals opponents is it was a deliberate plot on Nationals part.
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@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@SammyC said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@jegga said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
This is a pretty good example of how out of touch our pm is
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207207
Did you read the article or just the headline? It’s a poorly written opinion piece that probably took around 5 minutes to write.
I don’t think the reaction has been that bad (aside from the obvious people on this forum who won’t vote labour anyway, and a few right leaning journalists like hosking).
Yeah I read it. What makes it poorly written?
The title is misleading for a start.
It’s also short and full of unsubstantiated claims. Because Ardern gives a speech on how to report something correctly, it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s backtracking on anything in the report.
I’m on the fence with capital gains personally. To my untrained eye it seems that it’s pretty well supported by younger voters, I’d like to see a poll result though.
I guess I’m as biased as everyone on here though (to the other side) as I won’t vote national tho unless they drag themselves out of the dark ages with their approach to drug legislation, crime and the environment.
The last sentence is a bit odd on the environmental front , National proposed the largest marine sanctuary in the world , proposed the legislation to ban micro beads ( which labour claimed credit for) and put cameras on commercial fishing boats which this government has removed . This is Russell Norman’s take on the government and the fishing industry
I’d also say given Sopers sources he’s got a fair idea of what Labours internal polling has revealed about CGT . Apparently in her interview on new talk ZB she didn’t sound like she was particularly happy about the reaction either . I haven’t heard it yet but will listen tonight.
“Wadeable” quality rivers was a big fail from an environmental perspective (coming from a perspective of a keen fisherman and open water swimmer).
I listened to the ZB interview this morning and thought adern did ok.
Anyway... cheers kirwan for linking the poll results, I’ll have a read today.
From a practicing accountants perspective the CG tax is excellent news
I think it will take us back to the days where everyone has a family trust (which doesn’t die when a normal person does).......come and see us, for 5grand we will set up a trust and save you many more dollars down the line.Ffs . Bloody accountants.
Honestly I don’t think National were too keen to hobble one of our biggest export earners during the gfc rather than a nefarious plot to fill our rivers with cow shit .
You’ve twisted my words there.... I never said it was a plot to dirty up our rivers.
Agree with you that nationals motivation was economic , and I disagree with it (from my own selfish perpective).
I never said you personally said that but when Sam Mahon builds a statue of Nick Smith taking a dump in a glass of water it’s hard not to get the impression that the narrative from Nationals opponents is it was a deliberate plot on Nationals part.
Well don’t assign that position to me then.
You’re debating with me, not Sam McMahon... I’m not going to argue on behalf of someone else.
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long interview on National Radio with Tax Working Group dissenter Robin Oliver, a former Inland Revenue deputy commissioner, and a recognised expert on the tax system.
While supporting a capital gains tax on rental properties he disagreed with it being applied more widely.
Robin Oliver tells Kathryn Ryan that applying capital gains taxes to shares and businesses could undermine efforts to revitalise our capital markets, and put people off joining Kiwisaver.
Some salient points
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Too complicated - return doesn't justify the inherent weaknesses
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There is no correlation between tax and housing. CGT will at best reduce house prices a little and increase rentals a little
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Really concerned about the fact that it will discourage local investment in the sharemarket and encourage overseas investors. Thinks retail investors are a critical means of raising venture capital and the implications for NZS are bleak. NZ retail investors will simply invest on overseas markets
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Thinks it will lead (as it does overseas) to business owners holding on to their businesses until they die rather than passing them on to a younger less risk adverse generation
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Concerned about impact on Kiwisaver
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Really concerned that capital gains will be calculated annually not just when you sell
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Thinks it is way too complex and difficult / expensive to administer and won't achieve what it set out to
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Sounds like pretty reasonable points @dogmeat and aligns with my view - that is, with the proviso that rental properties are taxed. I think that’s probably the correction needed - for example right now, my (property accountant) friend has been pointing out in his newsletter that most rental properties don’t pay for themselves, even at 4% interest and interest only payments. In other words, they invest for the capital gains - that’s the deferred income. I think that distortion needs correcting - or to be honest, needed correcting about 15 years ago. I have a lot of friends who have invested in rentals, using the untaxed capital gain to reinvest in property (or sometime bring together to reduce personal debt). It’s just a savings account for them. I don’t see why that type of investment should be supported.
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@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
Sounds like pretty reasonable points @dogmeat and aligns with my view - that is, with the proviso that rental properties are taxed. I think that’s probably the correction needed - for example right now, my (property accountant) friend has been pointing out in his newsletter that most rental properties don’t pay for themselves, even at 4% interest and interest only payments. In other words, they invest for the capital gains - that’s the deferred income. I think that distortion needs correcting - or to be honest, needed correcting about 15 years ago. I have a lot of friends who have invested in rentals, using the untaxed capital gain to reinvest in property (or sometime bring together to reduce personal debt). It’s just a savings account for them. I don’t see why that type of investment should be supported.
If my experience getting a rental property in Auckland is anything to go by, the reason to support it is to increase the supply of rental properties. We had lines of people waiting to view properties, and mini auctions bidding for weekly rental price.
If this isn't a viable way to invest anymore, rental supply will dry up as people abandon the market and rents will increase even more.
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@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
So, what do you think will happen to those existing properties?
Sold to homeowners, potentially at a lower than expected price to avoid the date for the CGT, removing them from the rental market. Flow on affect of reducing surrounding house prices, putting existing home owners in a precarious position too with their mortgage.
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@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
So, what do you think will happen to those existing properties?
Sold to homeowners, potentially at a lower than expected price to avoid the date for the CGT, removing them from the rental market. Flow on affect of reducing surrounding house prices, putting existing home owners in a precarious position too with their mortgage.
That reduces the number of renters too surely?
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@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
So, what do you think will happen to those existing properties?
Edit: sorry I’m not sure whether you think a cgt on rentals is appropriate or not, can you confirm?
I don't see how it can be applied without raising rents and reducing supply. So will hit the poor pretty hard IMO.
Happy to proved wrong, or shown why this isn't likely.
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@canefan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
So, what do you think will happen to those existing properties?
Sold to homeowners, potentially at a lower than expected price to avoid the date for the CGT, removing them from the rental market. Flow on affect of reducing surrounding house prices, putting existing home owners in a precarious position too with their mortgage.
That reduces the number of renters too surely?
Not in the group that can't afford houses. The people that were going to buy homes anyway will be in a better position, but those that are struggling will have higher rents and less choice.
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@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@canefan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
So, what do you think will happen to those existing properties?
Sold to homeowners, potentially at a lower than expected price to avoid the date for the CGT, removing them from the rental market. Flow on affect of reducing surrounding house prices, putting existing home owners in a precarious position too with their mortgage.
That reduces the number of renters too surely?
Not in the group that can't afford houses. The people that were going to buy homes anyway will be in a better position, but those that are struggling will have higher rents and less choice.
So basically those who can't afford are screwed either way.....
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@canefan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@canefan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
So, what do you think will happen to those existing properties?
Sold to homeowners, potentially at a lower than expected price to avoid the date for the CGT, removing them from the rental market. Flow on affect of reducing surrounding house prices, putting existing home owners in a precarious position too with their mortgage.
That reduces the number of renters too surely?
Not in the group that can't afford houses. The people that were going to buy homes anyway will be in a better position, but those that are struggling will have higher rents and less choice.
So basically those who can't afford are screwed either way.....
No, they will be in a worse position. The opposite of what Labour campaigned on.
Rents are going up from the removal of the letting fee, the new Tywford rules on heaters, etc and now CGT. Like I said above, add in the Petrol tax increases, and the poor are getting screwed hard in Labours attack on landlords.
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@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
No, they will be in a worse position. The opposite of what Labour campaigned on.
Rents are going up from the removal of the letting fee, the new Tywford rules on heaters, etc and now CGT. Like I said above, add in the Petrol tax increases, and the poor are getting screwed hard in Labours attack on landlords.
Unintended consequences. IT's what smacks you down, and it's learned the hard way in the real world.
Try to save the climate by stopping oil exploration? Watch additional emissions as we import more oil.
Try to reduce house prices by imposing CGT and minimum standards? watch rents go up and supply drop
Reality has a nasty way of biting ideology on its arse
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@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@canefan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@canefan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@Kirwan said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@gt12 said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
So, what do you think will happen to those existing properties?
Sold to homeowners, potentially at a lower than expected price to avoid the date for the CGT, removing them from the rental market. Flow on affect of reducing surrounding house prices, putting existing home owners in a precarious position too with their mortgage.
That reduces the number of renters too surely?
Not in the group that can't afford houses. The people that were going to buy homes anyway will be in a better position, but those that are struggling will have higher rents and less choice.
So basically those who can't afford are screwed either way.....
No, they will be in a worse position. The opposite of what Labour campaigned on.
Rents are going up from the removal of the letting fee, the new Tywford rules on heaters, etc and now CGT. Like I said above, add in the Petrol tax increases, and the poor are getting screwed hard in Labours attack on landlords.
It's the same old shit. They try to tax the 'rich', but it is their own people that lose out
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In terms of wealth redistribution apparently anyone earning less than 65K p.a. will gain about 50K towards their retirement (*not sure of the term) while those above will lose the same
the shocking thing for me was you only need to have nett worth of $400,000 to be in top 10% of kiwi's. I don't want to come over all Wellingtonian on a 6 figure salary but 400K!
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@taniwharugby said in So we are about to get taxed up a storm!:
@canefan yeah the way they are painting it is wrong, they are talking about bringing those at the top down and closer to those at the bottom through taxation, rather than bringing those at the bottom up.
one appears way easier than the other. And paints the right picture to the right people.
In reality you bring the middle back, as the top find ways around it.
And the Big 4 accounting firms and the lawyers make bank.
So we are about to get taxed up a storm!