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@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@gollum said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!
Further to the "its a non-issue!"
What a load of clap trap
Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?
In my above examples I would say mail room bloke definitely mental issues. Older female to male guy definitely not and unsure on the newer female to male, only knew them for a short while pre facebook. Anyone else here know any transgender folk to give some anecdotal evidence on the mental illness angle? Being gay was classified in the DSM-IV as late as the 80's. No idea how much different this is and my sample size of 3 doesn't give a whole lot of insight.
Yeah Rembrandt, my standard kiwi assumptions got a shake up after teaching secondary school in Thailand for the first decade of this century, and also working with and interacting with many "lady-boys" (Katoey is the Thai transliteration pronounced "gah toyyy"). I believe these are transgender - men born who want to be women.
The context is vital:
There is no (none) social stigma in thailand for being homosexual. No vehement vicious teasing, no turning your nose up, no real pressure in society, no Victorian "ickiness" that dominates Anglo Saxon attitudes on this subject, but more of "who cares up to them" attitude.Actually the Thais will apply the same amount of peer pressure and disgust for bizarre concepts (to us) like skin colour or body shape - white and fat means you work inside and have plenty of food therefore are not a dumb poor peasant.
I taught at a prestigious Thai Catholic school, all boys (an Eton equivalent if you like) and my students were from 12-17 years, so right through puberty.
I';m going to call them ladyboys and girls because they would and over there, and to me, it carries no negative connotations.Each class had about 10% ladyboys. I watched these kids over years go through puberty where our sexuality is hard wired.
These girls developed their preferences and behaviour in an environment where no special significance was placed on their behaviour. No teasing, no trying to change them, no bullying - nothing like the equivalent in our western schools. Other boys moved around them, played around them, were civil to them, in fact the only good natured ribbing they got was from me, their teacher! our behavioural traits are hard to change. Honestly, one straight kid, in good nature, once advised me "do you have to make lame jokes about the girls sir?" - classic!
So in a society where there is no advantage or attention seeking mechanism or other secondary motivation to be gay or transgender these kids just did it (for want of a better phrase)
typically the girls were excellent students, best in English, kind courteous, diligent, hard working and just pleasant human beings. they had all the coloured pens and stickers and flowery girly books and loved my little pony, hello kitty, pink, fashion magazines and make up and all the things you'd expect your 11 daughter to do.
The boys interacted just like they were "normal" - to them they were - they were actually really respectful in the main, well as respectful to peers as any puberty kids are at a school
The girls sexuality was never a distinction whatsoever
No signs of mental illness whatsoever
I was intrigued with all of this. Couldn't work out why you'd choose to live like this. i had difficulty reconciling years of kiwi conditioning until it dawned on me that this wasn't a choice at all.
They were just living their preferences in a society that demonstrated no ill will against them.I spoke to fathers of the girls and asked if they minded them being girls and the men looked at me quizitively and countered with "he's" smart caring, and a lovely child. How he develops is out of my hands, I love him like all my kids"
I think the neutral unbiased setting of these transitions strengthened my belief that these are the cards they're dealt and because every other facet of their life was normal or even impressive.
The result now i couldn't give a rats arse what sexual preference people have, (it's about as relevant as the difference between a hetero bloke who doesn't like giving oral sex to a woman and one who does - i couldn't give a shit and it's not a determinant to what sort of place someone takes up in society.Frankly I can't wait till expressing any sort of sexuality is responded to by "meh" - about as relevant as what vegetables you like to eat and what you don't . long may celebrity or attention seeking homosexuality be a thing of the past.
But I digress. Anecdote number 2 is a "woman" i met with my wife and got to know for about 4 years. She died a couple of months ago. I'll call her Nat.
Many posters on here would laugh, cringe and scoff at nat if they saw her. A normal sized tAsian fella with long hair and a pair of cracking tits. Nat definately looked strange and could be a poster boy for the people many think of when contemplating the freak nature of transgenders.i don't say this lightly but Nat has proven to me to never judge a book by it's cover. I've never met a more caring trusting considerate person in all my nearly 50 years.
This woman would cook for everyone or anyone, would actually drop what she was doing to help (not just say it) and would stay by a bedside for 48 hours at time. She would regularly put her own life activities on hold for others and was loyal and protective to the end - nursed my wife while I was overseas and Nat was on dialysis and dying.Truly a far better person than me or anyone I know, yet a freak to those who judge with no information and no knowledge.
So @Rembrandt, my experiences don't prove anything but to me they are experiences that validate that judging people on perceptions is folly.
As for the toilet thing, in my experience the transgenders that i knew didn't want to impose their lives on others and would make do going to the toilet and keeping a low profile, they also had/have the wherewithall to know that they were happy in their skin and would cast suspicion of those transgenders that did impose themselves- i.e. is this about us transgenders or actually about yourself as an individual seeking attention or leveraging your sexuality for more nefarious means and not the benefit of our cohort.
as for all transgenders have mental illnesses, well let me counter with an equally spurious all forum posters who name themselves after cartoon characters have mental illnesses....
no validity either way, just a perception borne from ignorance.
sorry Rembrandt, a bit long but bloody genuine
RIP "Nat" a truly great little person
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@gollum said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!
Further to the "its a non-issue!"
What a load of clap trap
Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.So as dismiss any communication confusion:
The 11 and 12 year old students in my class who I observed and interacted with for their teenage years did not need any mental care or serious support structures. They were high achievement kids living in a society that didn't give a toss at how they lived their lives inside the rule of law
Baron they were great kids. They are now great adults
probably false equivalence or whatever but there were far more hetero kids with obvious social and mental problems than these chaps who preferred art and fashion to sport and war
Like everything we're learning at the moment - you can't judge a cohort on a few individuals, it's just that the world can't be arsed looking at individual behaviour and motivations - better to lump it into "all props are dumb" etc
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A couple of other anecdotes to lighten the mood, if necessary
walking along the corridor at this boys school one day and Dean (actual name) a strong and determined little ladyboy walks past me, we're the only two people on that corridor
Remember (if you're old enough) a strict teacher saying something like "Jones pull your socks up" or Smith, tuck your shirt in" - "yes sir" as you fumble for the socks etc
Well me and Dean's interaction went:
"Dean, lay off the foundation it's too thick and it'll give you pimples"
"Yes Mr Matthew"Neither of us broke stride but I smiled ruefully for the whole day - still do
Dean came to the leaving party (no girls but lots of families in a wealthy setting" wearing a ball gown while all tthe other boys were in a suit. that wasn't mental illness, that's mental fortitude. I took great pride in her reaction when I remarked "dean you look beautiful tonight"
At a school camp one evening, the activity in the hall was to dress up the teachers as robots. Teacher stands their while 8 12 and 13 year olds rush around cutting a cradboard armour and hats and weapons and affixing them onto you.
I'm standing there and the kids are loving it feverishly sticking armour, making swords and nuclear grenades and photon guns and loving being boys.Little "Ant" comes up demurely and shy as and mumbles "Sir?"
"Yes Ant, whats up?"
"Sir can I please paint your nails?"
"Course you can!!"So I'm standing their furiously getting prepared for war with these lads feverishly running around and everyone of them carefully moves around Ant who has a smile a mile wide applying nail polish to my outstretched right fingers.
Not one of the other kids battered an eyelid throughoutGreat little people when we don't pour shit on them
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This is a minor topic-but important for many people! Pretty common sense stuff, so I'm merely going to quickly re-post. IMO:
-It is clear that there is a multi year steady linear increase in arrests in solicitation and trafficking.
-Since the wikileaks on Podesta and DNC corruption, the long campaign trail, there is much more energy in law and order. At the GOP National Convention, Trumps campaign called itself the law and order campaign. In stark contrast to the hell the police went through in 2016 under Lynch and Obama and the BLM situation.
-Under Obama and Lynch, the DOJ purposefully restricted investigations in many areas. I proved that with one muslim link. Plus the obvious Clinton stuff which needs no explanation. I am not saying that they stopped the lengthy investigations in this area, that would be patently false. But perhaps they did move slowly in generally policing this and other things.
-There is obviously a different policing climate now, and that flows from the Trump movement (not just from him) and police will be more empowered.
-His EO on solicitation and trafficking in February is late (so didn't directly impact the high number of arrests), but is very strongly against trafficking, and in support of law enforcement.
-This year there is a historic spike in arrests in both trafficking and solicitation, more so if you take the numbers from his election win. Trump and his movement, and his consistent strong rhetoric, and lately, policies has facilitated some of this surge in arrests.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Siam brilliant post mate, and thanks for sharing your insight. Respect acceptance tolerance, not special treatment or prejudice. Who would have guessed ?
Common decency to other humans, sure, but not respect. I don't go around respecting everyone, for all I know they might be a complete fucking idiot. Respect is earnt, and society works better when it is that way. Sorry, small distinction, but an important one IMO.
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@Siam you have some awesome experiences/wisdom to share (your hooker stories will go down in Fern history), and that was a great read - thanks.
What you say about the toilet thing is bang on, and why many in western society take issue with transgender "activists".
Personally I have no issue with a man wanting to live as a woman, or a woman wanting to live as a man. Live and let live, no dramas whatsoever.
What I do take issue with is people making up genders and demanding that people refer to them by that new name. And far more concerning is what is happening in Canada where the law is telling people what they have to say - Jordan Pederson is a great person to listen too on that issue.
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Wairau said in US Politics:
There is obviously a different policing climate now, and that flows from the Trump movement (not just from him) and police will be more empowered
They've got APCs. What's next, tanks?
I look forward to them actually arresting rioters breaking the law.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Wairau said in US Politics:
There is obviously a different policing climate now, and that flows from the Trump movement (not just from him) and police will be more empowered
They've got APCs. What's next, tanks?
I look forward to them actually arresting rioters breaking the law.
I'm not sure they can in this political climate which is kind of messed up. I think there would have to be some sort of loss of life incident first otherwise the media will go completely nuts
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@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Wairau said in US Politics:
There is obviously a different policing climate now, and that flows from the Trump movement (not just from him) and police will be more empowered
They've got APCs. What's next, tanks?
I look forward to them actually arresting rioters breaking the law.
I'm not sure they can in this political climate which is kind of messed up. I think there would have to be some sort of loss of life incident first otherwise the media will go completely nuts
I can almost guarantee that they can and that they will. It will kick off IMO
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback Gees I can only imagine the stream of virtroil if it does. There is a marxist conference coming up in Melbourne in a couple weeks, a part of me wants to go and see the crazyiness in person.
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@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Gees I can only imagine the stream of virtroil if it does. There is a marxist conference coming up in Melbourne in a couple weeks, a part of me wants to go and see the crazyiness in person.
I am pretty sure that Trump will unleash law enforcement to restore the rule of law over the law of tantrum.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback
Hope so. There's room to voice and debate displeasure inside the laws and it feels like the world needs a reminder that laws are not irrelevant -
This article is by a Never-Trumper.
Despite the Hysteria, Trump Is Trending Less Authoritarian Than Obama
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445185/trump-less-authoritarian-obama
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@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
An aside Colbert really has gone downhill since taking on this late show. No longer even slightly funny.
Yeah, the unending spam of Fox news clips on here are great views that everyone should take the time to watch, but Colbert is no longer funny...
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