So, what HAS Michael Cheika actually done as a coach?

LagerLout

Cheika tried to play mind games with Eddie and he's carrying it on. We're baiting him, in the press and on the field. His players don't look comfortable in the enforcer roles as they're skilled professionals and did really well at the WC when they concentrated on the rugby. I think Eddie showed how to put Cheika off and maybe if you put the coach off that in some small way transfers over to the team. It's obvious from the England series what Cheika was trying to do. If you can needle the coach and it translates into a loss on the field, lack of focus, maybe you get rid of the coach. That's probably an indirect compliment from the other coaches, they see him as a threat, but with a weakness that's easy to exploit. By contrast, even under Clive, I've not seen such a professional and focussed England team before. If Cheika loses another couple he may be on the way out. Mission accomplished?

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="610133" data-time="1472367030">
Who's saying it was a success? I thought it was just NTA making a joke about it? Or have the media said that? (I don't read them. Although I did read the Murdoch tabloid in a cafe today while waiting for my food and they gave Kaino a 6 - while giving yellow card Coleman a 6.5 so that tells you all you need to know about that). 
But yep, at a kind of lucky 15-9 at halftime Cheika should have said ok boys stop the niggle, hit some rucks and lets make a game of it.</blockquote>
 
Both the Aus commentary teams (Foxsports and Ten) during the game and in post match analysis where banging on about how the added aggression was such a positive and made it a real contest etc. 
From where i was watching it looked like they got carried away and forgot to play rugby. Its not as if their forwards were piling into rucks with extra venom or putting on bit hits. Just silly shit after the whistle. If anything i think it backfired when they let Coles and BBBR get under their skin. Certainly helped the AB when their lock got carded and Kepu got pinged for off the ball shit on A Smith. I dare say it probably contributed to the ref not wanting to listen to moore have a moan at every stoppage.

Gary

Back to coach of the year in 2015 
One guy coached his team to do what no other team has done before I.e back to back world cups. The other guy won a shortened four nations (playing both SA and NZ at home) and came second at the World Cup (which has been done by lots of other coaches)

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="610244" data-time="1472382742">
<div>
Certainly helped the AB when their lock got carded and Kepu got pinged for off the ball shit on A Smith. I dare say it probably contributed to the ref not wanting to listen to moore have a moan at every stoppage.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
The point where Moore asked about a yellow card - for an infringement in the red zone with us on attack - was before either of those two incidents I believe. And Poite treated Moore with disdain right then and there.
 
So Moore must have said something pretty fucked before then. Having a copy of the ref's audio would be great.

Gary

To the augment that donkey could coach the All Blacks and win â€“ I say 91, 95, 99, 03 and 07 are pretty good arguments that winning the world cup is not easy. Back to back is even harder â€“You have to sell the dream to some of the more experienced players to stick around for another crack. Carter revealed he was nearly ready to pack it in. Without the right environment guys like Nonu and C. Smith may have gone for the big bucks earlier. Ritchie might have decided to end it in 2014. Thatâ€™s a real skill - Titch didnâ€™t have it to convince a few of the big stars to switch to 7s and he was selling the Olympic dream.
Then there is the selection process another coach might have ditched Carter (who topped the tackle count in the final) not had the balls to bring SBW on at Â½ time. Just for those of short memory 2016 Barrett is way better than the 2015 guy. Another coach might have decided 2011 game plan was the way to go.

Gary

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610253" data-time="1472384140">
<div>
The point where Moore asked about a yellow card - for an infringement in the red zone with us on attack - was before either of those two incidents I believe. And Poite treated Moore with disdain right then and there.
 
So Moore must have said something pretty fucked before then. Having a copy of the ref's audio would be great.
</div>
</blockquote>
I think its got more to do with Moore asking at every penalty if its a yellow card. When I was a young lad we used to scream at the ref when he awarded a penalty in the first few minutes "he has been doing all game" it seems Moore is still playing that game

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610253" data-time="1472384140">The point where Moore asked about a yellow card - for an infringement in the red zone with us on attack - was before either of those two incidents I believe. And Poite treated Moore with disdain right then and there. 
 
So Moore must have said something pretty fucked before then. Having a copy of the ref's audio would be great.</blockquote>
 
I think that one is a decent example of why Moore gets offside with refs. 
It was a not rolling away from a contested kick maul, so a bit of a mess all round. 
It was before the 10 minute mark and Poite has no history of yellowing players that early. Steve Walsh maybe. 
It was a time when a savvy captain strikes up a rapport by subtly pointing out that was a good position they were in or some such. Playing a trump card so early and so spuriously looked desperate and a tad disrespectful. 
But the bigger problem tham Moore's oafish referee dealings is would someone please, for the love of god tell POCOCK TO SHUT THE FUCK UP!! 
That fluffybunny isn't even vice captain

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610253" data-time="1472384140">
<div>
The point where Moore asked about a yellow card - for an infringement in the red zone with us on attack - was before either of those two incidents I believe. And Poite treated Moore with disdain right then and there.
 
So Moore must have said something pretty fucked before then. Having a copy of the ref's audio would be great.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I was referring not so much to those two incidents but the general push and shove and get in the face crap that seemed to occur at every stoppage where the ref would have to tell the players to back off 10 times, then Moore would lumber over for a whinge. I would get sick of it as a ref and im actually surprised they didn't get marched 10 a few times.
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="610263" data-time="1472385738">
<div>
I think that one is a decent example of why Moore gets offside with refs. 
It was a not rolling away from a contested kick maul, so a bit of a mess all round. 
It was before the 10 minute mark and Poite has no history of yellowing players that early. Steve Walsh maybe. 
It was a time when a savvy captain strikes up a rapport by subtly pointing out that was a good position they were in or some such. Playing a trump card so early and so spuriously looked desperate and a tad disrespectful. 
But the bigger problem tham Moore's oafish referee dealings is would someone please, for the love of god tell POCOCK TO SHUT THE FUCK UP!! 
That fluffybunny isn't even vice captain
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yes the Foxsports post match presenter, Nick Mcardle is it? was having a whinge about the All Blacks being allowed to have lots of players talk to the ref after Sam Cane pointed something out at a Scrum but made no mention of all the times Pocock tried to act like he was captain.

Crucial

I thought the funniest moment of the test was when Poite lectured both captains, Moore tried to be all nice to him and said "I'll have a word with my guys" and Reado chips in with "have a word with yourself mate".

booboo

Wynne Grey weighs in 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11702910'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11702910</a>

Milk

They showed some clips on Rugby 360 (Fox Australia), and at one point Read was telling the ref about Moore: "You don't need that mate... Romaine, tell him to go away. If you dont want him there Romain, I'll tell him.
 
Cheeky bugger.

taniwharugby

but that is managing the ref better than whining about YCs at every opportunity.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="611409" data-time="1472769518">
<div>
but that is managing the ref better than whining about YCs at every opportunity.
</div>
</blockquote>
proof is in the pudding i guess - but if someone said that to me when i was reffing it would be 'thanks kieran, but i'll do my job, now you fuck off and do yours'.

taniwharugby

guess it depends on how he has said it too, creating a rapport with the ref rather than bitching at him, which basically implies you think he is doing a shit job.

Bovidae

Read has done plenty of whinging himself as captain of the Crusaders. Not surprisingly, you tend to whinge less when your team is winning. ;)

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="611404" data-time="1472766121">
<div>
Wynne Grey weighs in <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11702910'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11702910</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
 
" It is a constant splutter of complaint or excuse."
 
Completely ignoring the multiple times Cheika has publicly put the blame on himself for not getting the preparation right.
 
Gotta write to your audience I guess.

KiwiMurph

Paul Cully with some interesting points (he writes some good stuff). 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/michael-cheikas-wallabies-squad-has-the-talent-but-it-is-not-being-unlocked-20160831-gr5v3f.html'>http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/michael-cheikas-wallabies-squad-has-the-talent-but-it-is-not-being-unlocked-20160831-gr5v3f.html</a>

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="611437" data-time="1472774057">
" It is a constant splutter of complaint or excuse." Completely ignoring the multiple times Cheika has publicly put the blame on himself for not getting the preparation right. Gotta write to your audience I guess.</blockquote>
 
I suppose that's the excuse part ... 
He does come across as a whingey victim though.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="611443" data-time="1472774468">
<div>
I suppose that's the excuse part ...
</div>
</blockquote>
 
What the fuck else is he supposed to talk about in press conferences? "Yeah look, the players were shit out there and I did my best. Useless fluffybunnies, the lot of them!"
 
What would an All Black Coach do in this situation? Try to think back to 2007 when you lost to France but everyone just decided it was a forward fucking pass not called by the officials that was the problem. Not the fact that the ABs, despite their might and pomp, couldn't break down a fanatical French defence, or even have the brains or skill to pop over a field goal despite numerous opportunities.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="611447" data-time="1472774853">
What the fuck else is he supposed to talk about in press conferences? "Yeah look, the players were shit out there and I did my best. Useless fluffybunnys, the lot of them!" 
What would an All Black Coach do in this situation? Try to think back to 2007 when you lost to France but everyone just decided it was a forward fucking pass not called by the officials that was the problem. Not the fact that the ABs, despite their might and pomp, couldn't break down a fanatical French defence, or even have the brains or skill to pop over a field goal despite numerous opportunities.</blockquote>
 
If you recall the coach and team handled the defeat with class and dignity. It was us fans losing our shit. 
(You also forgot the bullshit yellow cards and the numerous unawarded penalties.) 
It wasn't until (IIRC) about July that a player (Ali W) made a public comment about the officiating. 
Henry of course had made comment in his review to his employers. But nothing public. No "Fuck off fuck off shit fluffybunny" antics. 
I think Cheika's demeanor really reflects on the team's attitude. Drop the victim act. 
Mind you it's fun having a loon back in international rugby coaching. Been quiet since PdV left.

The Silver Fern

So, what HAS Michael Cheika actually done as a coach?