New Mitre 10 Cup laws

hydro11

Horrible, horrible, horrible. Why is World Rugby intent on destroying the penalty as a practical method of scoring points? I doubt I will be watching any ITM Cup rugby next season. As Crucial said, how many ITM Cup games is point scoring not rewarded? People are kidding themselves if they think that people aren't turning up because the rugby isn't exciting enough. People don't turn up to the ITM Cup because the rugby is seen as irrelevant.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="549041" data-time="1450820157">
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A few more details in this article on Stuff:
 
 
If penalties are devalued to 2 points, isn't that an invitation to more offending? Or are the two refs going to hand out more cards as well? 
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In the NRC this year there were 61 yellow cards and 4 red cards over 39 games. If you want to see unbalanced games decided upon controversial refereeing decisions then you have the perfect rules.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="549043" data-time="1450820381">
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In the NRC this year there were 61 yellow cards and 4 red cards over 39 games. If you want to see unbalanced games decided upon controversial refereeing decisions then you have the perfect rules.
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In 79 ITM Cup games we had 45 yellow cards and 2 red cards.
 
This means that if we are to emulate the NRC, the amount of yellow cards will increase 2.75 times. Great news if you are a referee; bad news if you think one of the problems with rugby is close games being decided by referees.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="549043" data-time="1450820381">
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In the NRC this year there were 61 yellow cards and 4 red cards over 39 games. If you want to see unbalanced games decided upon controversial refereeing decisions then you have the perfect rules.
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Define "unbalanced" - in the context of a player deliberately infringing in certain situations, and receiving his due for it.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="549047" data-time="1450820803">
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Define "unbalanced" - in the context of a player deliberately infringing in certain situations, and receiving his due for it.
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I don't know what sport you watch if you think that the majority of YC's given now are for deliberate offences. Most of them are given for repeated offences. Many are given when players become trapped on the wrong side of the ruck. Many are given when a defensive team is genuinely trying to stop a rolling maul and end up infringing. I would hate to see what kind of things are given YC's in the NRC where we see almost 3 times as many cards given.

hydro11

In case anyone thought I was being alarmist, there were two penalty goals kicked in the NRC (which operates under slightly different scoring rules). Make no mistake - these rules will eliminate the penalty goal as a genuine option in rugby games.

ploughboy

i would have thought it would lead to more intentional fouls being committed. give away 2 instead or 6 maybe 8( 33% or 25%),sounds better tan 3 instead or 5 maybe 7(60% or 42%)
the only way i can see this working is if the the threshold for a yellow card is going to be lower

Stargazer

Finally, the NZRU has posted all the rule changes that will be trialled:
 
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New laws to be trialled across domestic competitions
 
ALLBLACKS.COM 23 DEC 2015
 
Changes to rugby laws will be trialled across New Zealandâ€™s national provincial competitions in 2016.
 
New Zealand Rugby is currently planning to trial changes that will apply to some of the domestic competitions including a new points scoring system, policing of the breakdown and the use of two referees. 
New Zealand Rugby General Manager Rugby Neil Sorensen said that while much of the detail on how the laws will be implemented, is still to be worked through, the trials were part and parcel of World Rugbyâ€™s cyclical review of laws. 
â€œWorld Rugby conducts a review of its laws about every four years, typically after Rugby World Cup, and they evaluate current law and we have had (All Blacks Coach) Steve Hansen and (Chiefs Coach) on the Law Review Group looking at these laws. 
â€œThat group has come out with a number of suggested changes, some of which they have asked New Zealand trial. 
The following will be trialled next year: Mitre 10 Cup: 
â€¢ Two referees 
â€¢ New points system â€“ 8 pts penalty try, 6 pts try, 2 pts DG, 2 pts PK, 2 pts Conv 
â€¢ Law 15: Tackler must get to feet then can only play the ball from his side of the mid-point of the breakdown; Tackler assist or first arriving player may play the ball as long they join from an onside position 
â€¢ Law 16:
<ul><li>Breakdown iss formed when an attacking player of feet is over the ball on the ground, from this time no players may play the ball with their hands.</li>
<li>An off side line is created â€œhindmost foot + 1 metre.</li>
<li>Arriving players may join from onside as long as they join their side of the midpoint (no gate).</li>
<li>No players may have their hands on the ground, or players already on the ground. A player in the half back position may play the ball</li>
</ul>Mitre 10 Heartland & Womenâ€™s Provincial Championship 
â€¢ New points system - 8pts Penalty Try, 6pts Try, 2 pts each for PK, DG and Conv Jock Hobbs Memorial Under 19 Championship 
â€¢ Two referees 
Sorensen said the alternative points system would also likely be trialled in Mitre 10 Cup, as well as the Mitre 10 Heartland Championship and the Mitre 10 Womenâ€™s Provincial Championship. 
The allocation of six points for a try and two for a penalty had already been trialled in Australia. 
â€œIt did have some massive changes in domestic rugby and it will be really interesting to see how it pans out in our domestic rugby next year. What they found in Australia was that were hardly any kicks at goal, a lot more kicking for touch, a lot more tries but there were other unintended consequences such as more yellow cards as the value of penalties was reduced. 
â€œThereâ€™s a massive amount of work to do before we bring these laws into play. World Rugby will come back and give us the mechanics of the law (referee calls etc) but our referees team will also work with World Rugby and Provincial Unions to ensure a smooth implementation of the new rules.â€ 
â€œThis is quite a daunting piece of work, but also very exciting to think we will have quite a different looking game next year.â€
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Nepia

FFS, if you increase a try to 6 you don't drop penalties to 2. Who came up with this clusterfuck?

reprobate

stupid idea, and mathematically embarrassing.

taniwharugby

4 penalties/drop goals = 1 converted try
 
Seems daft after one of the better RWCs in terms of playing style, where 2 of the most attacking teams made the final for a change, and now they look to make changes?
 
Before the RWC everyone was worried mauls would be a blight on the RWC, they werent, after a scratchy start with TMO use, it was refereed pretty damn well, and the play reflected it.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="549244" data-time="1450855633">
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Seems daft after one of the better RWCs in terms of playing style, where 2 of the most attacking teams made the final for a change, and now they look to make changes?
 
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There were three attacking teams made the top 4 when you think about it. But besides Japan, and occasionally Canada, a lot of it was twaddle.
 
Why NZRFU think they need to change the domestic scene is anyone's guess. I would think - like most of you seem to - that everything is just peachy with Kiwi rugby and that nothing needs to change while you're #1 with no signs of losing steam at all levels of rugby.
 
Yet, here we are. Apparently the "stupidity" of the NRC experiment has infected the noble bastion of NZ domestic rugby. Who'd have thunk it?
 
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="549048" data-time="1450821156">
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I don't know what sport you watch if you think that the majority of YC's given now are for deliberate offences. Most of them are given for repeated offences. Many are given when players become trapped on the wrong side of the ruck. 
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Well, it sucks for that player, but maybe his team mates should have been defending legally up to that point. That's why its called a team warning. And I'm not sure about "many" being quantifiable.
 
A lot of the YCs given in NRC that I saw were for deliberate infringement - particularly as the speed of the game was quite a bit higher than most of the club guys had experienced to that point. They start to run out of puff and infringe, knowing they need to prevent a try. Ref gets them in the red zone.
 
Here is a breakdown of the NRC between last (inaugural) year and this year:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1699/ArticleID/16790/Buildcorp-NRC-A-2015-v-2014-statistical-snapshot.aspx'>http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1699/ArticleID/16790/Buildcorp-NRC-A-2015-v-2014-statistical-snapshot.aspx</a>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">Penalties and Yellow Cards
In 2014, the breakdown was an average of 24 penalties per game, 1.9 free kicks per game, and 1.5 yellow cards per game. In 2015 the breakdown is: â€¢ 21.9 penalties per game (High of 31, Low of 13); â€¢ 1.2 free kicks per game, and â€¢ 1.5 yellow cards per game. The good sign here is that though penalties and free kicks have decreased (also a reason why BIP time increased in 2015), referees remain unafraid to hand out yellow cards. In total, 53 yellows and four red cards were handed out over the 36 games. With penalty goals reduced to two points under the Buildcorp NRC Law Variations, itâ€™s crucial that referees remain on top of cynical infringements, particularly. Happily, this is the case, with referees happy to blow the penalty, dish out the card, and teams winning the penalty invariably kicking for the corner to set up the lineout drive.</blockquote>
 
Fairly consistent, which is all you can ask for. They make the point that cynical infringements must be punished, but that is the same anywhere.
 
Will be interesting to see what happens next year as player fitness levels continue to increase due to experience in both the playing and coaching areas. Its a fairly short comp (couple of months with finals) but players who want contracts know they need to get and stay fit if they want a career out of this.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="549252" data-time="1450857648">
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There were three attacking teams made the top 4 when you think about it. But besides Japan, and occasionally Canada, a lot of it was twaddle.
 
Why NZRFU think they need to change the domestic scene is anyone's guess. I would think - like most of you seem to - that everything is just peachy with Kiwi rugby and that nothing needs to change while you're #1 with no signs of losing steam at all levels of rugby.
 
Yet, here we are. Apparently the "stupidity" of the NRC experiment has infected the noble bastion of NZ domestic rugby. Who'd have thunk it?
 
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3 of the teams playing more attractive rugby made it to the semi finals, if that isnt endorsement enough that things are moving in the right direction.
 
The Welsh have always tried to play expansively, the Irish want to, the English want to, the French can...the Island teams do but seem to possibly be hamstrung by so many plying thier trade in a comp that is dominated by teams not playuing that style.
 
As to changing the domestic game, well it has its problems, but I dont think the changes they are looking at are addressing these...try scoring and attacking flowing rugby isnt exactly an oddity at NPC. 
 
Changing the points - why? What do they hope to achieve?
1m off-side line and no gate - be interesting seeing it in action
No hands in ruck at all - so only way to win the ball is to clear past it?
2 refs - the concept is good, but cant see it working at all, we have 2 other officials already that do jack shit, and one of the 2 new officials is gonna have to take a back seat (like what youd expect the AR to have done) otherwise it will end up a clusterfuck.
 
In regard to the 'stupid' NRC comp trialling the changes, maybe they now want to have a go in a 'real' comp ;)

No Quarter

And here I was thinking we'd just had one of the best RWCs ever. There is nothing wrong with the rules and points scoring in rugby - in fact rugby has this worked out better then any ther sport. Soccer - goals mean way too much. At the other end of the scale, Aussie Rules - points don't mean enough. Rugby has it exactly right at the moment. 
The only controversy in the RWC was the erratic way the judiciary punished foul play. That's where they need to focus their attention.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="549253" data-time="1450858701">
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No hands in ruck at all - so only way to win the ball is to clear past it?
 
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Most counter-rucks are exactly that. Power over the ball.
 
Technically, most steals aren't hands in the ruck at all - player has beaten the ruck formation, so the offence occurred before any ruck.

hydro11

One thing no one has mentioned is that a penalty try is now worth 8 points! I assume you still get a conversion so it will now be worth 10 points. What a ridiculous idea.
 
Some times I feel like a very strange rugby fan. I actually like rugby for what it is.

taniwharugby

is it really that or are they just counting it as 8 given it is all but a guaranteed 2 points?
 
I guess it would make sense to avoid the professional fouls to allow 2 points rather than a try, but still messing about with the wrong part of the game.

reprobate

why don't they just make a try worth 12 points, and penalties and conversions worth 4 each, cause everyone likes high-scoring games.
 
fucking idiots.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="549304" data-time="1450907448">
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One thing no one has mentioned is that a penalty try is now worth 8 points! I assume you still get a conversion so it will now be worth 10 points. What a ridiculous idea.
 
Some times I feel like a very strange rugby fan. I actually like rugby for what it is.
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Nah I think its "penalty try doesn't need a conversion kicked" - so 8 points.
 
I think the simultaneous reduction of penalties and DGs and increase on tries could have been done a different way. I opined during the NRC that it would slowly decrease the role of the long-range goal kicker, given pretty much any penalty is now kicked for touch.
 
Keeping Pen and DG at 3 would have been a better system, with tries at 6.

booboo

It's been said but why, after the best World Cup ever, with fantastic attacking rugby throughout do we neex this? 
In my opinion (and cue Nick) this is all about Straya and Strayans not understanding rugby and wanting it to be league. 
"We don't like rucks" 
"We need more tries"* 
"We don't understand the rules" 
"Scrums should be restarts only" 
Squeeky wheel syndrome. 
WR has been sucked in to thinking there is something wrong with the game that requires fundamental fucking with, where a few minor tweaks would suffice. 
HATE (if I use caps will that give it more weight?) the scoring changes. Will result in more infringing.

- which is bullshit anyway IMO

The Silver Fern

New Mitre 10 Cup laws