Guns and Strippers thread! Best ever!
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="595778" data-time="1468148468">
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<p>The Rodney King style instances, like the guy who was shot while prone on the ground would suggest there is a healthy amount of racial profiling there too</p>
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<p>Statistically speaking, far more white men are shot by Police in the States than black men (the obvious counter to that is that white people are the majority in the states so they should be evenly represented). I don't think there are too many cops who go out with the attitude that they will shoot a black person whenever they get the chance. I know cops who have shot people dead and its not something that anyone wants to do. Taking a life must be a horrendous thing, taking a life and knowing it will result in turmoil across the entire country must be another level to that. </p>
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<p>That said, there would be plenty of cops who either panic or react poorly in a situation and end up shooting someone dead. In any workforce there will be hopelessly inadequate or unsuitable people who have somehow got the job, the big problem with that workforce being a police force is that the incompetent person has a huge amount of power over an ordinary citizen. </p> -
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://imgur.com/gallery/bFtmb'>Gallery link</a> to show how quickly a situation can escalate in a traffic stop situation. No gore if you're squeamish - you'll see worse in a PG13 movie.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="595778" data-time="1468148468">
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<p>The Rodney King style instances, like the guy who was shot while prone on the ground would suggest there is a healthy amount of racial profiling there too</p>
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<p>Possibly. Also true is black people in America commit a disproportionate amount of crime.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="595796" data-time="1468164833">
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://imgur.com/gallery/bFtmb'>Gallery link</a> to show how quickly a situation can escalate in a traffic stop situation. No gore if you're squeamish - you'll see worse in a PG13 movie.</p>
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<p>Possibly. Also true is black people in America commit a disproportionate amount of crime.</p>
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<p>The poor bastard didn't stand a chance from that close...</p>
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<p>I used to play American Football for a team in East Auckland. On our team were a fair few boys of Polynesian descent, the majority of whom were decent family men, a couple of whom were wannabe gangsters who sometimes didn't turn up to games because they had been locked up for breach of bail or various things the night before. In any case, a number of them would lament to me (the only cop on the team, in fact often the only cop they had ever met in a social capacity) that they had been stopped by the Police while driving through Botany to training. In general they drove 10-15 year old cars, often Subaru Mazda (most commonly stolen cars in Auckland), and liked to drive around with their hoodies up (obviously not a crime, but can be thought of as suspicious in itself). I was always a little bit gutted/embarrassed when they would tell me this because they were generally decent guys and even though the cops were always pleasant to them when they stopped, I hated the thought of "racial profiling" happening in Auckland. It wasn't until one of the boys said to me that they actually didn't mind it, because it meant the cops were probably making educated guesses and doing their job. The way he saw it was, if you have two cars sitting at the traffic lights in Howick - one with an elderly woman driving a late model car, the other and older car with three massive Tongan boys in it, which gets your suspicions up?</p>
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<p>Obviously it's quite some leap from stopping a car to shooting someone, but then again, suburban Howick is a quite different Policing environment to downtown Detroit. I would never, ever condone pulling the trigger or even drawing a weapon on someone based solely on their skin colour, but in a Policing environment, it's impossible not to be shaped by things that you see and do on a daily basis. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="aucklandwarlord" data-cid="595798" data-time="1468167470">
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<p>The way he saw it was, if you have two cars sitting at the traffic lights in Howick - one with an elderly woman driving a late model car, the other and older car with three massive Tongan boys in it, which gets your suspicions up?</p>
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<p>Serious question, though isn't that the whole problem? Neither should get your suspicions up! Suspicious activity should do that. Not the way someone dresses or how old and shitty their car is.</p>
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<p>By that I mean if someone is driving to slowly or passing by the same place 4 or 5 times, then I think the police should be looking to say gidday and see whats going on. Not because the fellah inside isn't dressed all posh like. </p> -
<p>Black police officers have been involved in killing black men who were not behaving in an overtly threatening manner so to suggest it's solely racially motivated is clearly wrong.</p>
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<p>No offence intended, but in my experience the work does to a certain extent dehumanise police officers and this is then reflected in their attitudes to the general public. This is unfortunately to be expected. If you deal with a lot of bad people so that they disproportionately represent your experiences with the public then I guess you will see people in a different light. You also want to create a corp d'esprit amongst serving officers and voila a them and us mentality can emerge. In relatively peaceful NZ....</p>
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<p>Looking at images from the States I wonder if going out tooled up like Judge Dredd is helpful</p> -
<p><img src="http://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/blackviolence-2.jpg?w=600" alt="blackviolence-2.jpg?w=600"></p>
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<p>It has troubled me somewhat that nothing has been said in defence for the Philando Castle shooting.</p>
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<p>Why did the officer shoot? No, really WHY did the officer shoot? Was this a colossal mis-understanding with grave consequences, or is there more to it than what is being represented? What is being shown obviously looks really bad for the cop, and there is a decent chance that it is what it is. But I think the cop does deserve the right of reply.</p>
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<p>Either way, nobody should have died for a broken tail light.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="595945" data-time="1468283664"><p>
Black police officers have been involved in killing black men who were not behaving in an overtly threatening manner so to suggest it's solely racially motivated is clearly wrong.</p></blockquote>
Yup, none of this is solely race motivated. None of it is solely anything related, it's always a combination of factors. Nothing is EVER black and white with humans, but people always want to find one specific thing to blame a problem on, and then put it in a basket all neat and tidy. That's never the right answer. America has a fucking multitude of problems that culminate in shootings and violence that we hear about all the time. From what I can see there is (and many of these are not just limited to the USA):<br><br>- Gun culture<br>
- Racism<br>
- Bigotry<br>
- Poverty<br>
- Mentally ill<br>
- Arseholes<br>
- Poorly trained police force<br><br>
And that's just off the top of my head. And all of those factors influence each other.<br><br>
Like the stat BSG put up re: black violence against whites. Looks bad on face value until you understand the black population is massively over represented in 4) Poverty. And that is due to 2) Racism (historic).<br><br>
It's all so much more complicated then what we hear through media/social media and there is absolutely NOT one single answer to their problems. In fact the only real "fixable" problem above is 7. The rest is a mental state of mind and there is no quick fix for any of that.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="595903" data-time="1468226218">
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<p>Serious question, though isn't that the whole problem? Neither should get your suspicions up! Suspicious activity should do that. Not the way someone dresses or how old and shitty their car is.</p>
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<p>By that I mean if someone is driving to slowly or passing by the same place 4 or 5 times, then I think the police should be looking to say gidday and see whats going on. Not because the fellah inside isn't dressed all posh like. </p>
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<p>I wholeheartedly agree. Depends what they're being stopped for I guess. I would presume if they asked, they would be told were stopped in the old/shitty car for the purposes of traffic, licence enforcement, where it would presumably make sense to target older beaten up vehicles for roadworthiness, rather than brand new ones. I agree though, no one should be targeted solely based on race or wealth. If working for a drug squad taught me anything, it's the guys in the flash cars that you'd probably want to stop..</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="595945" data-time="1468283664">
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<p>Black police officers have been involved in killing black men who were not behaving in an overtly threatening manner so to suggest it's solely racially motivated is clearly wrong.</p>
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<p>No offence intended, but in my experience the work does to a certain extent dehumanise police officers and this is then reflected in their attitudes to the general public. This is unfortunately to be expected. If you deal with a lot of bad people so that they disproportionately represent your experiences with the public then I guess you will see people in a different light. You also want to create a corp d'esprit amongst serving officers and voila a them and us mentality can emerge. In relatively peaceful NZ....</p>
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<p>Looking at images from the States I wonder if going out tooled up like Judge Dredd is helpful</p>
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<p>I'd be lying if I said I was the same person that I was when I left the job as I was when I started ten years earlier. There are plenty of effects that it has on you, and a lot of them you can't do much about because its human nature that if you expose yourself to the sorts of things cops do, that they will have an effect on you. These include:</p>
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<ul><li>Not sweating the small stuff. A shit day for most people is getting held up in an hour traffic going home from work. Some of the shit days I saw people have were coming home to find their significant other hanging in the garage, or losing their 2 month old kid to cot death, or being the victim of years of sexual abuse at the hands of someone who should be protecting them. </li>
<li>I'm probably far less judgemental - I used to think that everyone had the same chances in life in regards to education etc (more or less), but you go to enough houses where parents are on the piss midweek instead of helping their kids with schoolwork, or you see enough kids going to school starving because mum and dad blew the budget on the pokies, and you realise that some kids really are doomed from the get-go.</li>
<li>Choosing my friends more carefully - Contrary to what some people might believe about cops, I don't choose my friends along the lines of race, social standing, what sort of jobs they have or sports they play. I tend to choose them based on whether or not they're an arsehole. (Like most people I suppose)</li>
<li>Being more guarded around people I don't know - I'm an extrovert, but when I used to meet people in a social situation, I'd often not tell them what I did for a job. For a number of reasons, including the fact I have no idea what they're like as a person, some people just hate all cops (a guy wanted to punch me out at a party once because someone else told him I was a Detective), and I also don't want to hear their stories about every single traffic ticket they ever got. There are lots of cops who only hang out with cops in a social situation. Personally, I don't think that's a good thing. It's nice to have balance by hanging out with people who have different viewpoints and avoids creating that us v them mentality. </li>
<li>Avoiding certain places at certain times - Suddenly the lure of the viaduct didn't seem that appealing after seeing heaps of good people have the shit beaten out of them, or worse, by drunk thugs looking to test out their brand new gym muscles. Likewise, the casino didn't seem like such a fun place when I knew the sort of people who frequented there. And don't get me started on strip clubs and strippers...</li>
<li> I'm far more cynical about humans in general. When I first started, I used to think that everyone had some amount of good in them. Now, knowing what I know, I genuinely believe that there are some people who can't be helped, and that some people are pure evil. That doesn't mean I treat everyone like they're evil, it just means that I do think some people don't deserve a second chance at society. </li>
</ul><p>I think the guys who tend to burn out and have a shit attitude to the general public are the ones who stay on frontline too long. Frontline Policing is easily the most taxing job in the Police., particularly in Auckland where the volume of work is so big. Some Sunday late shifts, it wouldn't be unusual to go to 8 - 10 domestic violence incidents in a shift. Each carrying with it half an hour of paperwork that needs to be done before the end of play. While the workload in the CIB was big, it was the exception rather than the norm that we would be doing large amounts of overtime in a week.</p>
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<p>I'm in no way excusing the way some cops treat good members of the public, or a cop being disinterested while attending an incident, but for all you know, the guy might have just come from consoling a grieving parent, might not have been able to eat his entire shift because he's been so busy or had just been spat at and called a pig for the 3rd time that week. It certainly does take it's toll after a while. I've seen friends and family get poor, lazy or inadequate service from Police officers and it makes me really angry. But I've also seen good cops burn out and turn into shit cops, because they've fallen through the net in some respects.</p>
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<p>Interestingly, the stereotypical white racist cop is far less likely to exist (in my experience) than the Polynesian or Maori cop who gets really angry at Polynesian offenders, because they're the reason that he and his family members end up being the victims of racial stereotyping as criminals by society.</p> -
<p>Wow interesting insight thanks for that. I think you are probably right about its never good to just associate with the people you work with but I can totally see why it happens in the police. It must be hard. We had a detective play with us in Scotland for a few years was a cracking winger and great fun on the bus trips. But would never go out in town. Probably for similar reasons as you have stated. </p>
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<p>Funniest story is when he first came down he was being introduced to everyone. When he met one of the wingers for the 2nds he went yeah we already know each other but in a more professional capacity. They both had a good laugh about it though.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="596017" data-time="1468307922">
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<p>Wow interesting insight thanks for that. I think you are probably right about its never good to just associate with the people you work with but I can totally see why it happens in the police. It must be hard. We had a detective play with us in Scotland for a few years was a cracking winger and great fun on the bus trips. But would never go out in town. Probably for similar reasons as you have stated. </p>
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<p>Funniest story is when he first came down he was being introduced to everyone. When he met one of the wingers for the 2nds he went yeah we already know each other but in a more professional capacity. They both had a good laugh about it though.</p>
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<p>Don't get me wrong, my wife is a cop (we never really talked shop at home though, nor did we ever work together), and some of my closest mates are guys I met in the Police. Friendships forged through talking shit while sitting in the car on night shifts, after work beers and having each others backs in some pretty stressful situations are often pretty strong, but I my circle of friends in general is a mix of people from all walks of life. I know cops who only hang out with cops and it generally gives them a really one dimensional view on people and society. A really good movie that shows how cops interact with other cops is End of Watch. </p>
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<p>I got into playing American football because I was talking to a guy who had robbed a liquor store and he told me all about the league in Auckland. It piqued my interest enough to look into playing. Thankfully he went away to prison for a few years so I never had to square off against him. </p> -
<p>There was a strong tradition in the UK of police rugby teams, with South Wales Police basically being a firs class team back in the day, Devon & Cornwall not far behind. This went down to a much more local level as well with the police teams fielding sides every week against local opposition and that comment of "Yeah we know each other professionally" came up a couple of times. The police teams always seemed to be the hardest bastards around and on reflection I really think it was the "we know they hate us, let's get the biff in first and show we take no prisoners" sort of thing and judging by attitudes in the opposing teams, no bloody wonder. Good boys in the bar afterwards to a man. Some memorable early evenings in D&C HQ after games v Exeter Police.</p>
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<p>Happy days. Once the game was over.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="aucklandwarlord" data-cid="596018" data-time="1468308803">
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<p>Don't get me wrong, my wife is a cop (we never really talked shop at home though, nor did we ever work together), and some of my closest mates are guys I met in the Police. Friendships forged through talking shit while sitting in the car on night shifts, after work beers and having each others backs in some pretty stressful situations are often pretty strong, but I my circle of friends in general is a mix of people from all walks of life. I know cops who only hang out with cops and it generally gives them a really one dimensional view on people and society. A really good movie that shows how cops interact with other cops is End of Watch. </p>
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<p>I got into playing American football because I was talking to a guy who had robbed a liquor store and he told me all about the league in Auckland. It piqued my interest enough to look into playing. Thankfully he went away to prison for a few years so I never had to square off against him. </p>
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<p>I worked in Police Comms as some of you know and came extremely close to becoming sworn ( ie a cop ) and whilst my experience of the frontline is basically fuck all ( a few SCOPES ) I hear what AW is saying re some of the cops only hanging with "their own kind". Can't add a hell of a lot to what he has already said but some just COULD NOT switch off in social circles. It got pretty tiresome going to a Barbie, getting caught up in a conversation with two of them arguing if an incident should be P1 or P2 ( shop talk there ) and after fucking off to get another beer, go for a piss, chat with someone else or whatever come back and hear the same shit being argued !</p>
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<p>I've worked in Radio advertising and in terms of overall bitchiness and backstabbing they don't have a patch on police in my experience. I can honestly say some of my very worst, but also very best, workmates ever have been in the police. I suppose that's true of any workplace but the extremes got me, quite often the difference between a good and bad shift was down to who were the commanding officers and supervisors. I personally couldn't stand that salute rank shit if I didn't like the individual much but conversely had no problem if they'd earnt the respect to go with the rank.</p>
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<p>I don't know how some frontliners keep their cool with some of the shit they deal with, of course human nature dictates it doesn't matter the thousands of good jobs they do it's that one shit one they get hauled over the coals for ( and AW will confirm police can pretty ruthlessly throw their own to the dogs if they're in the wrong ). </p> -
AWL you can start on strippers and strip clubs if you want, they seem like the dodgiest places on earth
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="596023" data-time="1468313283"><p>AWL you can start on strippers and strip clubs if you want, they seem like the dodgiest places on earth</p></blockquote>
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Hush your tongue heretic! -
Haha I'm going to get burned at the stake for that one
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<p>wife looking over your shoulder huh! </p>
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<p>Heaps of the clubs themselves have some quite overt links to organised crime, and the punishment for stepping out of line at them is normally one hell of a beating from the bouncers, followed by the CCTV going missing and none of the bar staff or patrons seeing anything. A fair amount of money would be laundered through some of them as well, I'd imagine. </p>
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<p>The girls themselves generally aren't paying their way through uni like they'd want you to believe, more like paying for huge meth addictions. And, having dealt with a number of them on jobs etc, they don't look the same without a tonne of make-up and without 16 beers in your system. Plus the guys who they keep as boyfriends would make you never want to even get close to touching one of them, let alone paying them to take their clothes off. </p>