All Blacks vs Argentina I
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
We need to flush the dunny and move on
The All Blacks have needed to do that far too often since Steve Hansen first used the phrase.
Yet the stench of some of these performances keeps lingering - maybe its time they don't get to just move on without first fully understanding why they were a failure as a 23...
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
We need to flush the dunny and move on
The All Blacks have needed to do that far too often since Steve Hansen first used the phrase.
Yet the stench of some of these performances keeps lingering - maybe its time they don't get to just move on without first fully understanding why they were a failure as a 23...
Fair call, there’s so much wrong with the ABs. Ever since we botched the Lions series in 2017 we haven’t been the same and we seem to not be learning from failure after failure. Let’s hope these coaches can turn shit around fast.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
We need to flush the dunny and move on
The All Blacks have needed to do that far too often since Steve Hansen first used the phrase.
Yet the stench of some of these performances keeps lingering - maybe its time they don't get to just move on without first fully understanding why they were a failure as a 23...
Fair call, there’s so much wrong with the ABs. Ever since we botched the Lions series in 2017 we haven’t been the same and we seem to not be learning from failure after failure. Let’s hope these coaches can turn shit around fast.
I don't believe it's purely an execution issue. We have philosophical issues right now
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the elephant in the room is whether when plan A doesn't work, someone can change plan A to plan B. And who would it be?
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Honestly listening to this sounds like listening to aware children. They say the right things, but it's the excuses we've heard before for exactly the same transgressions. How can you not have patterns to exit? How do you not know to not throw passes to nobody? How do you not know that passing to someone without support is only going to put us under pressure and we'll likely give away a penalty as a result?
Let's be honest and say we lost this game more than our opposition won it because we placed ourselves under pressure with stupid or ineffective execution.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Aumua took a great time to throw so badly
No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.
Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.
Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.
Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.
No. One. Jumped.
What every line out
Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?
All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.
Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.
He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.Drop Taylor and Blackadder aswell. No effect at all. Blackadder flying back like that as our enforcer and then missing a one on one tackle under our posts was just embarrassing. Taylor shouldn’t have been starting tonight, he was garbage in the first two tests. Maybe starting Aumua would have given him more confidence instead of throwing him in last minute when we were already under the pump.
Again, it falls on Razor with shit selections and shit tactics.
He chose not to select the form Super players like Sotutu, Love, Lakai, Ioane etc so he can fall on the sword when it all turns to shit for all I care.
Hahaha Hang on I will go get your dummy for you.
And I’ll get your eye patch.
Hahaha it maybe right next to your dummy
The only one acting like a little baby is you. At least I can admit when Canes players are playing like arse. You can’t even admit anything which proves my point.
Come on mate chill out you hate criticism of canes players just admit it.
This is the most ‘pot calling the kettle black’ statement I’ve ever seen. I’ve literally just said the Canes players weren’t good enough tonight but still don’t see you guys admitting how woeful your players were aswell. It’s laughable.
Oh no I will admit every one was poor tonight the coaches the players the game plan the Captain was shit.
Very shit house effort I would not give anyone above a 6 for that effort,
But you get all twisted when a canes player gets critiqued in a way you don’t like.What are you on about. I’ve admitted the Canes players were shit tonight. The thing I get annoyed with is when you blokes point finger at non-Cantabs when clearly your players are fking up just as much. For example Taylor had 66 minutes to impact that game and help put it beyond reach, fucking up a fair amount along the way, but when Aumua comes on and doesn’t perform it’s suddenly all his fault we lost the test. Get a grip of yourselves.
Never said Amua lost the test on his own he had a lot of help,
As for Taylor I think there was a shit load of other players stinking the game up more in that 66 minutes he was on the field it actually got worse in the last 15 minutes of that test it was awful.All in all it was dreadful. We need to flush the dunny and move on. Everyone on here knows we can be better. It’s time for these guys to start bloody showing it no matter what province they are from.
100% agree with that it is frustrating as hell.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Where's Akira?
Japan
He'll be at Eden Park next week.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Misses from dead in front.
Matchlosing miss.
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@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I think those 3 potential game breakers should have come on earlier than the 65th minute.
Lets hope they make a difference now.
They did. But not the difference you were hoping for.
The turning point in the match.
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And one other thing: When our lineout went to shit it looked like they hadn't trained together despite knowing at some point that was going to be the likely lineout we'd have to see out the match.
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There is a stench of 2004-2015 Wallabies off the Allblacks and has been since about 2018.
It harks back to when Beale, O'Connor, Ashely Cooper, Giteau et al had a different shirt on their back from week to week. Fullback one week, running the cutter the next. No specialists and no development of specialists. An a le carte menu at the selection table.
Our problem stems from the continued selection of two of my favourite Allblacks who are both former world players of the year. Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett. Their presence has historically lead to selection headaches in both the forwards and backs. We end up filling in the blanks around them.
There was time where maybe one position in an Allblack squad was a talking point in a build up to a test week. Now the back row, back three, locks, centres and scrum halves are all up for discussion. And rightfully so. Predicted or desired lineups vary from person to person, in contrast to 2015 where maybe 14 of the 15 spots would be deemed a general consensus.
The initial rot as I see it, started in Lions test 2 in 2017 when SBW dropped the shoulder into Anthony Watson....red card ensued, game lost, 3rd test Jerome "we have a deal" Garces and the "Aura" has been steadily corroding from that day onwards. I see SBW's red card as a sliding doors moment, and we have been on the back foot ever since.
This rot was further compounded by Hansen staying on until 2019, doing the amazon documentary and getting high off his own supply, seeing himself as some sort of rugby savant. The dual pivot nonsense, omission of Laumape, dropping of Ben Smith and Barrett's selection at 6 in the semi.
After the 2019 exit (in my own personal opinion) it should have been the end of Barrett at 15, the end of Goodhue and ALB and the end of Perenara, to name but a few.
Then the Boks leave Super Rugby and we spend half the year playing touch footie against shite Aussie teams, belting them and thinking we are still the dogs bollox.
We then hire Hansens assistant who gives the captaincy to the very bloke who was dropped in the semi final of the 2019 World Cup, a selection he himself would have had a say in. Joined up thinking eh.
The avalanche of red and yellow cards continues and we go from being the most un-carded team in history to the most carded in the space of a few years.
Foster has a torrid time, admittedly during a difficult covid environment, but it cant be denied he set some unenviable records. After his tenure we still dont have a backrow and we now find ourselves again with ALB and Beauden Barrett out in the backline playing basketball and running sideways, a lesson I thought would have been learned post 2019.
There are also a few intangible things that I noticed from 2017 onwards which have contributed to our decline.
Our coaches rightly or wrongly are waaaaaaaay too nice in the media, particularly post match. If we get hatcheted then say we got fucking hatcheted. It wont give you this weeks loss back, but it will help you going forward. Similarly, the time wasting, tactical injuries and boot lace re-tieing, cheating and skullduggery has to be called out, and called out directly. Not in guarded language which Razor did today like Fozzie did before him. Stop trying to be so nice and so liked. Name the players and name the infraction. It's professional sport.
Rassie and Andy Farrell are putting us in the ha'penny place with their "big dick energy". Andy Farrell for example defended his sons millionth suspension for a shoulder to the head and did it with a straight face and called the media out for a witch hunt. Even though his son was bang to rights. They dont give an inch. Rassie single handedly turned the Lions series on its head with his video stunt. In 40 years people will look back and Rassie's record will speak for itself. Nobody will remember Foster for being civil.
Playing the Allblacks is nice these days, half full stadium, sedate crowd, and a team full of well manicured boy band types. There is no feral atmosphere, no foaming at the mouth coach and no grizzled men or leaders in the team. Savea's post match interview/presser was like watching a shy Catholic in the confession box.
We are beaten in the dugout, in the stands and on the pitch.
Similarly the media (im looking at you Kirwan, Goldie and friends) dont ask any hard questions any more or hold peoples feet to the fire. Every player gets a round of applause and a pat on the back. You never hear them say "TJ's pass is too slow", "this lad cant tackle". It's all pally pally and incestuous.
I was a Razor evangelist, and to be honest they HAD to give him the job with his record. What he has done since is on him and him alone. Selection looks like a dogs breakfast. Some of his interviews leave me uncomfortable too "we need to find our connection piece". Fuck off man......go out and smack the other team in the fucking mouths. 38 points at home to Argentina. Give me a break.
There are a few simple things that would go a long way to helping fix this. Jordan or Love is the fullback. End of Story. Sayonara TJ and Finlay forever, bye bye. Ratima, Roigard and Hotham going forward.
You cant have Papalii, Jacobsen, Blackadder and Cane in a squad. 2 of them have to go. Pick your poison.
Pick specialists. Pick big people , pick fast people. Stop picking Swiss army knife players.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.
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@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Aumua took a great time to throw so badly
No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.
Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.
Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.
Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.
Cancel his bench pressing and spend the time on throwing against posts standing on goal line.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Anyone think the following were net positive?
Newell.
Reece.
Ethan.
ALB.
Savea.
Jordie.
TJP.Blackadder or De Groot:
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Darth-Sader he failed to select the players most responsible for the Blues' winning power game. The game most translatable to test level
Carry and clean. Rinse and repeat until resistance eliminated.
Simps?
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Where have these sorts of carries gone? Where is the venom? Where is the spite?
Its all catch, two pass, wide wide , shit exit.
Where are the Aldritt or Vermuelen style players who love a big carry?
There is nothing in our team to be fearful of. It's bland and stale. No characters.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Some very absurd takes in this thread about various players.
I think the biggest issue with the ABs tonight was their mental fortitude in those last 20 minutes - but a lot of that comes down to experience. Taylor, Savea, Perenara and Barrett all have ample games under their belt but two of those four weren't on in the final quarter and Savea is below his best at the moment and saddled with the captaincy, which doesn't seem to suit him. This is a team that's lost Coles, Whitelock, Retallick, Barrett, Cane etc etc so it's no surprise wonder they struggled a bit compared to the experienced line-up that Argentina were able to call on (particularly in the forwards).
The All Blacks actually created plenty of good opportunities - look at the well-constructed tries they scored. The Pumas' scores were far more opportunistic and the bounce of the ball went their way, coupled with a few one-off errors from NZ players. A loss is still a loss but play that game again and I'm sure it goes a different way - I suppose we'll see next week.
I think Darry performed well (though I'm a bit surprised at how many plaudits he's received - try aside, Vaa'i was the better lock on the park throughout the game) which is great for NZ's depth.
Big questions still remain over the loose forwards. Cane isn't the long-term answer at 7 obviously but he's probably the right option for the rest of the Rugby Champs. Maybe a Finau, Cane, Savea trio will feature next week.
I think we saw once again why Ratima should be starting over Perenara (although hard to say who should be the bench option, given neither Perenara nor Hotham can give the team the quick delivery they need).
ALB probably didn't take his chance at 13 and I suspect Ioane will be back in the jersey for the rest of the tournament. 12 remains an issue - maybe just a mindset change needed for Barrett? As others have noted, he's got the size but seemingly not using it very effectively...
Aye, glaring lack of leadership and composure in last quarter.
At 65 if RD goes off for Sititi and Paps takes over captaincy we win that. -
Ryan said at halftime the carry and clean needed to be better.
Which is correct
But their selections and game plan are a huge reason why it's a problem
They pick a pack lacking in ball runners
They pick a 9 whose slow and inconsistent service only hurts the carry clean.
They have an attacking game plan that frankly is predictable. Not nearly enough variations. Where are the pick and goes. Where are the players with support right next to them to clean etc etc
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Jailbreak7 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Having just watched the Dame power to victory in the K1, the only conclusion left is that we must clone her at once and slot the clones in to replace the current crop of shoddy ABs.
100%. She’s our greatest Olympian of all time. Even some of our ABs would be jealous of her guns.
Not really. Our GOAT had pretty shit guns when you saw him next to Kaino, Messam, JC etc.
