All Blacks 2024
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just for context on Foster. The record we considered unacceptable and should be sacked was:
46 tests, 32 wins, 12 losses 2 draws69% winning record
It was never just about the % of wins. It was the shit style of play repeated ad nauseum, poor selections, the same mistakes repeated despite 'learnings' being every 2nd word out of every fluffybunnies mouth, and the new lows - first losses etc. Once you give those records up, you never get them back, and you lose a significant psychological edge.
No one fears us like the good old days
I’m not sure if “aura” has ever been mentioned on here but I’d dare say it’s gone now.
Is Stephen Jones still writing or has he retired ? I’d love to hear his views on it.
We still had it after 2015. Went into decline around 2019 but people still believed in it. Since then the slide has been rapid, although we showed what we could do in the RWC23 SF vs Ireland. And if Jordie or Rickie make one of those kicks we talk about our RWC23 shorthanded win as the most improbable and one of the greatest finals wins ever
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just for context on Foster. The record we considered unacceptable and should be sacked was:
46 tests, 32 wins, 12 losses 2 draws69% winning record
It was never just about the % of wins. It was the shit style of play repeated ad nauseum, poor selections, the same mistakes repeated despite 'learnings' being every 2nd word out of every fluffybunnies mouth, and the new lows - first losses etc. Once you give those records up, you never get them back, and you lose a significant psychological edge.
No one fears us like the good old days
I’m not sure if “aura” has ever been mentioned on here but I’d dare say it’s gone now.
Is Stephen Jones still writing or has he retired ? I’d love to hear his views on it.
We still had it after 2015. Went into decline around 2019 but people still believed in it. Since then the slide has been rapid, although we showed what we could do in the RWC23 SF vs Ireland. And if Jordie or Rickie make one of those kicks we talk about our RWC23 shorthanded win as the most improbable and one of the greatest finals wins ever
Yeah I think that’s why we don’t give up hope entirely, we weren’t that far off last year and I think the players lost can be replaced but might take a couple of seasons , but I suspect the periods of complete dominance might be over .
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just for context on Foster. The record we considered unacceptable and should be sacked was:
46 tests, 32 wins, 12 losses 2 draws69% winning record
It was never just about the % of wins. It was the shit style of play repeated ad nauseum, poor selections, the same mistakes repeated despite 'learnings' being every 2nd word out of every fluffybunnies mouth, and the new lows - first losses etc. Once you give those records up, you never get them back, and you lose a significant psychological edge.
No one fears us like the good old days
I’m not sure if “aura” has ever been mentioned on here but I’d dare say it’s gone now.
Is Stephen Jones still writing or has he retired ? I’d love to hear his views on it.
We still had it after 2015. Went into decline around 2019 but people still believed in it. Since then the slide has been rapid, although we showed what we could do in the RWC23 SF vs Ireland. And if Jordie or Rickie make one of those kicks we talk about our RWC23 shorthanded win as the most improbable and one of the greatest finals wins ever
Yeah I think that’s why we don’t give up hope entirely, we weren’t that far off last year and I think the players lost can be replaced but might take a couple of seasons , but I suspect the periods of complete dominance might be over .
Absolutely. Someone brought up the U20s before. We haven't dominated there for a long time. I believe France in particular is pouring huge resources into getting hold of players from all over into their youth setup, and these players will form the backbone of the senior side for years to come. Similar in the UK. As the cliche says, there are no easy wins in tier 1 test rugby right now
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Are any of the competitions below test level as good or better than they were 10 - 20 years ago? The gap between the lower levels and international has never been wider in NZ.
School rugby - ?? our colts regularly get steam rolled now
Club rugby - worse
NPC - worse
Super rugby - worse -
@Toddy
after 20 years of fun, market forces are finally starting to come into effect
still think NZ his intrinsic advantages over just about every other country
the game played by kids in the backyard is rugby, not soccer football, as by all others
we will always have at least a small edge in individual skills and game instincts
currently this edge is easily negated by the best opponents -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just for context on Foster. The record we considered unacceptable and should be sacked was:
46 tests, 32 wins, 12 losses 2 draws69% winning record
It was never just about the % of wins. It was the shit style of play repeated ad nauseum, poor selections, the same mistakes repeated despite 'learnings' being every 2nd word out of every fluffybunnies mouth, and the new lows - first losses etc. Once you give those records up, you never get them back, and you lose a significant psychological edge.
Yeah, shipping a record number of points at home against a pretty limited Argentina is definitely a new low.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
It was the shit style of play repeated ad nauseum, poor selections, the same mistakes repeated despite 'learnings' being every 2nd word out of every fluffybunnies mouth
Replacing the "learnings" word with the phrase "the players didn't do what we coached" is one improvement, I guess.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just for context on Foster. The record we considered unacceptable and should be sacked was:
46 tests, 32 wins, 12 losses 2 draws69% winning record
We've got 10 tests left, and are currently 3-1.
2 Bankers Japan, Italy
3 'should win's - Arg, Ausx2
5 tough ones: SAx2, Fra, Ire, EngTo match Foster's record we need to go 10-4 overall ... so can drop 3 games.
So, if we drop 3 in the season it's a 'good' year, with a 78% win record. But I'd struggle to see us winning 3/5 of those tough games.
Given what we've seen so far, we may get 1 or 2 wins from the hard ones. But it all depends on our forwards stepping up on both sides of the ball.
The thing is, Razor is so cool, so dynamic, such a man of the people. He breakdances too.
Fozzie looked glum and he’s fat.
Different rules apply.
The OP was good, but comparing who we played is important as well.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just for context on Foster. The record we considered unacceptable and should be sacked was:
46 tests, 32 wins, 12 losses 2 draws69% winning record
It was never just about the % of wins. It was the shit style of play repeated ad nauseum, poor selections, the same mistakes repeated despite 'learnings' being every 2nd word out of every fluffybunnies mouth, and the new lows - first losses etc. Once you give those records up, you never get them back, and you lose a significant psychological edge.
Yeah, shipping a record number of points at home against a pretty limited Argentina is definitely a new low.
limited? They now have fast-running backs, better defense, better allround kicking, and the fatties don't tire after 30 minutes, I'd say they improved!
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@Victor-Meldrew Maybe one gets given a learning but taught a lesson.
The former really grates me.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just for context on Foster. The record we considered unacceptable and should be sacked was:
46 tests, 32 wins, 12 losses 2 draws69% winning record
It was never just about the % of wins. It was the shit style of play repeated ad nauseum, poor selections, the same mistakes repeated despite 'learnings' being every 2nd word out of every fluffybunnies mouth, and the new lows - first losses etc. Once you give those records up, you never get them back, and you lose a significant psychological edge.
Yeah, shipping a record number of points at home against a pretty limited Argentina is definitely a new low.
limited? They now have fast-running backs, better defense, better allround kicking, and the fatties don't tire after 30 minutes, I'd say they improved!
Argentina were ranked 7th in the global rankings before last week - they were also ranked 7th at the same time last year. Less Argentinian improvement, more we've gone backwards.
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The Boks are incorporating former players who had leadership roles into their coaching structure, e.g. Vermeulen.
Why are the ABs not doing the same with the likes of Conrad Smith, Whitelock, McCaw and Carter? Surely it would help mentor the new crop and show them what level they need to be at to become the best.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Why are the ABs not doing the same with the likes of Conrad Smith, Whitelock, McCaw and Carter? Surely it would help mentor the new crop and show them what level they need to be at to become the best.
We're already starting to question whether there's too many cooks in the kitchen, adding more doesn't seem promising. But maybe we need some chefs to replace the cooks.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The Boks are incorporating former players who had leadership roles into their coaching structure, e.g. Vermeulen.
Why are the ABs not doing the same with the likes of Conrad Smith, Whitelock, McCaw and Carter? Surely it would help mentor the new crop and show them what level they need to be at to become the best.
Chiefs and Highlanders have gone that way with Liam Messam Jono Gibbes in part time 'personal development' roles. at Landers you have Ben Smith, Nasi Manu in mentoring roles, Nasi only part time. the Blues also had Tana Umaga last season in a similar role, he was only part time as well I think.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
This is the other sad reality we have to face. We outsourced our muscle and our know how.
So much of our "I.P" is off abroad earning a pound note. And good luck to them I suppose.
We would be much better off if they were here putting their shoulder to the wheel though.
To see Tony Brown in the Springbok set up is just horrible. It's a shame it has to be this way.
Even Kenny Lynn was plotting our demise last weekend with the Argies.
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Tony brown turned down Razor in 2019 to be part of his AB coaching bid to stay with JJ and Japan.
I’m not entirely sure where he has earned his reputation from his work with Japan and Highlanders (although that just may be ignorance on my part)
