RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks
-
@Joans-Town-Jones since July. When they beat Argentina (a) 12-41 (July 8th), beat South African(h) 35-20 (July 15th), beat Australia (a) 7-38 (July 29th).
Fair enough things have derailed a bit since then, but 2 months ago, the ABs put 3 decent performances together in a row.
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Joans-Town-Jones since July. When they beat Argentina (a) 12-41 (July 8th), beat South African(h) 35-20 (July 15th), beat Australia (a) 7-38 (July 29th).
Fair enough things have derailed a bit since then, but 2 months ago, the ABs put 3 decent performances together in a row.
Point of order. Both games 1 and 2 they lost the second half. Still won the game but signs were there. Fozzie then changes pretty much the entire team for game 4 and it took a last min PG to win. Game 5 we got smoke, a man down plus a couple more in the bin, but smoked none the less. So I challenge that 80mins.
-
@Joans-Town-Jones Yes. Game 1, they were so far ahead after a near perfect 1st 40 mins that they did not maintain their standards in the 2nd 40 mins.
Game 2 is more nuanced - dominated the 1st 20 mins and took their opportunities. Boks gained ascendancy in 2nd 20 mins and really applied the blowtorch in the 3rd 20 mins, at which point the ABs recalibrated and reasserted control and took their opportunities.
If anything, game 2 shows that the players are capable of thinking on the hoof when things are not working.
In both cases, the ABs had scoreboard pressure on their side that both Arg and SA struggled with (SA less so, but still did to an extent).
-
AB issues in last 2 tests have been predominantly at the breakdown and their discipline. Throw in a couple of poor lineout throws to gift ball back to the opposition and some scrum penalties to gift field position, and they have struggled.
It will be interesting to see how the coaches and players react now.
-
@Joans-Town-Jones Fair point. I think back to 2013 vs the Irish at Aviva stadium. Few teams would have pulled that back. Irish were on fire that day and still lost.
ABs were in a hole against Oz in Dunedin this year. They pulled through. Just saying.
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
He's played Scott Barrett there. Barrett has the engine and the power game to play 6.
I'm not sure if that is enough, I can see why Schalk Burger loves Scott at 6 (ferocity, workrate, size), but seems to me the 3 Barretts are star players but not glue players, they have unique attributes as individuals but they don't coordinate those around them so well. Seems to me there needs to be more of a glue person, a connector, in the loosies, (at 6 or 8, pref at 6) Ardie is closest but not close enough.
-
@nostrildamus Frizell is a glue player? I'd say Ardie has the glue role in the AB backrow.
For me, the SA backrow of Kolisi, PSDT and Vermeulen has the best balance right now (though SA go with Wiese at 8 against NH teams it seems). Kolisi is the glue.
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus Frizell is a glue player? I'd say Ardie has the glue role in the AB backrow.
I thought I said Ardie was the closest? Frizell has parts of a glue player at times but I don't think he has a natural rugby game mind, he isn't that great a connector.
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Joans-Town-Jones Fair point. I think back to 2013 vs the Irish at Aviva stadium. Few teams would have pulled that back. Irish were on fire that day and still lost.
ABs were in a hole against Oz in Dunedin this year. They pulled through. Just saying.
And that was a statement game missed. Also, a poor Wallabies side.
-
@Joans-Town-Jones Are Italy any better than the Wallabies? If not, ABs have proven they can come back against decent teams (not very good ones mind).
-
@nostrildamus you did. Apologies. I mis-read your post as saying the 6 should be the glue.
-
@nostrildamus Who are the glue-like players in NZ rugby right now, who provide continuity and allow their colleagues to raise their game?
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Joans-Town-Jones Are Italy any better than the Wallabies? If not, ABs have proven they can come back against decent teams (not very good ones mind).
Didn't Italy beat the Wallabies the last time they played? I'm not sure who the ABs have come back against in the last 4 years...
-
@Joans-Town-Jones Yes, 28-27 in Nov 2022.
NZ came back against Scotland in Nov 2022. I think that's about it.
-
Why do AB match threads always have to turn into reminiscence threads like old men in a rest home discussing “back in the day”?
-
@pakman said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Cheer up, lads.
The French were bloody lucky to win that.
Their try after half time relied on a number of fortuitous events, including Jaco missing a relieving knock on.
The yellow had a much more subtle impact than the obvious. Not sure if it was some perception of guilt for not giving red or what, but for the next 15 minutes or so Jaco has hyper tough on us at breakdown and anything which was dropped assumed forwards. Meanwhile, counted him twice not pinging for same thing in their half and one heinous offside, which even ITV picked up, which was very kickable.
An even handed display in those 15 minutes and it'd have been 19-16 or even 16 all with ten to play.
That was the game in a nutshell.
ABs did many good things and were best team over first three quarters.
I expect French coaches will have lots of material for Monday review.
-
@Billy-Tell It is a reminder of the possible
-
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Joans-Town-Jones I think NZ coaches overplay the R&R element sometimes. Foster isn't alone here. It used to work when the depth was there and the drop off in quality was limited, but that isn't the case now.
A 90% fit JB is better than a 100% fit ALB for instance.
No point managing players for a QF/SF/Final if you get booted out at the pool stage.
The only way NZ lose to Italy is if they have 3 players sent off
We'll there will be 3 Barretts on the field...
-
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Why do AB match threads always have to turn into reminiscence threads like old men in a rest home discussing “back in the day”?
I always wonder that too mate, I keep saying that waht we did before really has not any bearing on how we should or could play today. To harp back is to assume that the rest of the world hasn't got better. The game is in a real great spot, where I don't actually see any teams really dominating for long stretches of time anymore. It's a mixture of a well balanced team, with at least 3-4 players that would make a World XV you need to be confident (we lack the 3-4?). But outside that you can still win a WC with luck etc in knockout games anyway.
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
ABs were in a hole against Oz in Dunedin this year. They pulled through. Just saying.
Which ABs pulled through?
That game was totally wasted, because Foster is a dumb fluffybunny. He swapped the entire team, meaning we learned nothing about how player X would go slotted in to the A team in case of injury, we missed the oppportunity to develop useful combinations, and equally we learned nothing about how the ABs pull through under pressure, because that was not the ABs we were watching against SA or against France, or will be in the QF.
Seriously, what a fucking idiot. If for example he had played the A team, with Vaai at 6 or Finau at 6, maybe then we don't need to see a failed experiment against France in the WC?
