It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.
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@voodoo said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
I’m balls deep in the Razor camp
Imagery too horrible to contemplate...
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@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
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@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
May not look too hard at the moment, but a close contest is really possible if Borthwick gets England moving.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
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@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@voodoo said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
I’m balls deep in the Razor camp
Imagery too horrible to contemplate...
And yet, you can’t stop your mind from wandering
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@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
It isn't the improvement of the opposition, that is a given I would have thought. It is the lack of innovation and improvement in the AB camp that has been the problem. If Razor attempts new things, and brings a fresh approach but has similar results as Foster, I honestly think he will be given some leeway. It is the stagnant nature of the current set up and the feeling of time wasted that grinds a lot of people I think.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
It isn't the improvement of the opposition, that is a given I would have thought. It is the lack of innovation and improvement in the AB camp that has been the problem. If Razor attempts new things, and brings a fresh approach but has similar results as Foster, I honestly think he will be given some leeway. It is the stagnant nature of the current set up and the feeling of time wasted that grinds a lot of people I think.
I've already noticed a deliberate ferocity and directness in our forward play once Ryan joined the coaching team. What I feel we're missing is inventiveness in our backline attack (contrast with France in the 6N) and better defence.
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@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
It might be Regain Bledisloe if Foz loses it this year
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@Nevorian said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
It might be Regain Bledisloe if Foz loses it this year
That's an outcome I've contemplated when I look at the return of Eddie and Australian players making an early case for selection.
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@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
I've already noticed a deliberate ferocity and directness in our forward play once Ryan joined the coaching team. What I feel we're missing is inventiveness in our backline attack (contrast with France in the 6N) and better defence.
Yeah, there has been "go forward" since the assistants changed without a doubt. And there have been some inspired recent changes in selections. Pretty much all positive change has been forced though. It seems to me that Foster would have happily carried on with the status quo otherwise.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
It isn't the improvement of the opposition, that is a given I would have thought. It is the lack of innovation and improvement in the AB camp that has been the problem. If Razor attempts new things, and brings a fresh approach but has similar results as Foster, I honestly think he will be given some leeway. It is the stagnant nature of the current set up and the feeling of time wasted that grinds a lot of people I think.
Innovation and leeway won't matter a jot if the results aren't way better than Foster's bearing in mind the huge expectation that has been set. The latter was pilloried for being beaten by Argentina (a RWC semi-finalist) and I can't see that changing if Robertson loses to Scotland - which based on current form isn't unlikely.
It's up to NZR to think forward and manage this sort of stuff, and as I've said, I hope they handle it better than they did with Foster.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah, there has been "go forward" since the assistants changed without a doubt.
It was as patchy as fuck though. The forwards performance in the 2nd half of the England EOYT game was probably worse than it was against Ireland and France the year before Ryan came in. If the new coaching set-up can get the consistency sorted out and improve composure under pressure that would be a solid start.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Innovation and leeway won't matter a jot if the results aren't way better than Foster's bearing in mind the huge expectation that has been set. The latter was pilloried for being beaten by Argentina (a RWC semi-finalist) and I can't see that changing if Robertson loses to Scotland - which based on current form isn't unlikely.
It's up to NZR to think forward and manage this sort of stuff, and as I've said, I hope they handle it better than they did with Foster.
You are being a bit harsh on the average fan I think. It was the nature of the defeat that ranks. A complete headless chook, limp performance that was frankly, embarrassing. If the ABs had played well but lost to a better team, do you really think the NZ fans wouldn't have been so despondent? I take it you are of advanced years
What do NZ fans say about the 1971 Lions? Other teams that have beaten the ABs fair and square? They talk about those teams in awe. -
@ACT-Crusader said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@No-Quarter I think if you look back over the last 30 years or so, the first year/set of tests for a new coach have always been an interesting period in terms of selection, results and fan reaction. I don’t expect next year will be too different.
Given the unprecedented speculation/attention around the future, I don’t think this timing is that surprising. It’s the nature of things in today’s age when organisations look for circuit breakers. Putting to side the poor handling of things on the last few months from an NZRU (comms, messaging, frantic behaviour), I think it’s a good decision, not so much because of who they’ve appointed but because there is certainty and when the test season starts there won’t be inane articles / questions in pressers speculating about “who, what and if”.
Not exactly the same scenario but the circuit breaker principle still applied - I remember the Bulls and Phil Jackson were copping it about the future after the Bulls first NBA finals win against the Jazz and that’s when they decided that it would be Phil’s last year and put all the speculation to bed.
Fozzie’s last dance 😎
Good post. But I'd add Foster might find another coaching role (or mentoring?) somewhere. He seems to have friends. I just have no idea how much energy he'd have for another rugby contract after the RWC.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
Direction mostly for me, but a lot of people will want to judge him purely on results and want KPI's set as they did with Foster. After his first season in charge, I think anything less than keeping the Bled, the RC & not losing at EP would cause concern for a lot of people.
Losing more than 1 game on the EOYT, being below 2 or 3 in the global rankings and losing twice to Argentina would show a distinct lack of progress for an awful lot of people and the media knives will probably be unsheathed if that happens
This sounds reasonable but a little demanding to me.
For example, I think top 3 at least (top 2 is a nice but hard to have, we currently don't look like a 2 or 3 IMO), S Africa are competitive, and otherwise I'd mostly agree but do you know what the 2024 EOYT will be?
Given the strength of Ireland France and England (and Scotland?) I'd say only losing once on an EOYT is a bit hard but apparently England tour NZ in 2024 (https://www.planetrugby.com/news/internationals-england-set-to-tour-new-zealand-in-july-2024-report) so I am not sure what the 2024 EOYT will be...Losing to Italy or Japan would probably be a black mark (and maybe Scotland?)
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Innovation and leeway won't matter a jot if the results aren't way better than Foster's bearing in mind the huge expectation that has been set. The latter was pilloried for being beaten by Argentina (a RWC semi-finalist) and I can't see that changing if Robertson loses to Scotland - which based on current form isn't unlikely.
It's up to NZR to think forward and manage this sort of stuff, and as I've said, I hope they handle it better than they did with Foster.
You are being a bit harsh on the average fan I think. It was the nature of the defeat that ranks. A complete headless chook, limp performance that was frankly, embarrassing. If the ABs had played well but lost to a better team, do you really think the NZ fans wouldn't have been so despondent? I take it you are of advanced years
What do NZ fans say about the 1971 Lions? Other teams that have beaten the ABs fair and square? They talk about those teams in awe.Like Foster, Robertson will be judged overall on results and not just subjectively on the nature of the performance. NZ wants the ABs to win and not lose. You don't hear NZ fans saying "yeah they lost again, but that's OK"
And if you want a history lesson, the public were just as pissed off and despondent in '71 as they were with Ireland last year. The coach was vilified and dumped and replaced with a bloke from Canterbury who was going to make everything in the All Black world great again. He made things even worse...
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@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@nzzp said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@bayimports said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
There was zero need to make the signing now.
Potentially to prevent their coach from signing elsewhere they needed to do it early. The question was asked of Robertson in the video above and he brushed it, but agreed there were offers
So where’s the elsewhere that is bigger than the ABs?
Secure job >> chance of an AB role and unemployment otherwise.
Reality is we're a minnow, and we can't run a process 6 months behind everyone else like we did last time. It sucks on Foster, but that is life - I think they've done this better than last time. At least we had credible candidates this time (albeit probably only 2)
Not that worried about Foster himself. It’s a slight but I’m sure he can get past it.
I’m more concerned about the team and how they are being asked to be fully committed to a coach that their mutual employer isn’t.But their mutual employer is fully committed up to the end of this year and - save for a little waver last year - always has been. Nothing was ever guaranteed after this RWC, so why would anyone, including the players, think that it was?
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@nostrildamus said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
Direction mostly for me, but a lot of people will want to judge him purely on results and want KPI's set as they did with Foster. After his first season in charge, I think anything less than keeping the Bled, the RC & not losing at EP would cause concern for a lot of people.
Losing more than 1 game on the EOYT, being below 2 or 3 in the global rankings and losing twice to Argentina would show a distinct lack of progress for an awful lot of people and the media knives will probably be unsheathed if that happens
This sounds reasonable but a little demanding to me.
For example, I think top 3 at least (top 2 is a nice but hard to have, we currently don't look like a 2 or 3 IMO), S Africa are competitive, and otherwise I'd mostly agree but do you know what the 2024 EOYT will be?
Given the strength of Ireland France and England (and Scotland?) I'd say only losing once on an EOYT is a bit hard but apparently England tour NZ in 2024 (https://www.planetrugby.com/news/internationals-england-set-to-tour-new-zealand-in-july-2024-report) so I am not sure what the 2024 EOYT will be...Losing to Italy or Japan would probably be a black mark (and maybe Scotland?)
We are currently 3rd in the rankings under Foster. You think an improvement on that is too demanding for Robertson after a season or two? I don't and I don't think the NZ rugby public will either.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@nostrildamus said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
Direction mostly for me, but a lot of people will want to judge him purely on results and want KPI's set as they did with Foster. After his first season in charge, I think anything less than keeping the Bled, the RC & not losing at EP would cause concern for a lot of people.
Losing more than 1 game on the EOYT, being below 2 or 3 in the global rankings and losing twice to Argentina would show a distinct lack of progress for an awful lot of people and the media knives will probably be unsheathed if that happens
This sounds reasonable but a little demanding to me.
For example, I think top 3 at least (top 2 is a nice but hard to have, we currently don't look like a 2 or 3 IMO), S Africa are competitive, and otherwise I'd mostly agree but do you know what the 2024 EOYT will be?
Given the strength of Ireland France and England (and Scotland?) I'd say only losing once on an EOYT is a bit hard but apparently England tour NZ in 2024 (https://www.planetrugby.com/news/internationals-england-set-to-tour-new-zealand-in-july-2024-report) so I am not sure what the 2024 EOYT will be...Losing to Italy or Japan would probably be a black mark (and maybe Scotland?)
We are currently 3rd in the rankings under Foster. You think an improvement on that is too demanding for Robertson after a season or two? I don't and I don't think the NZ rugby public will either.
Currently RWC in Europe year so I don't think Ireland and France (in France) will be easy beats, put it that way. And England and SA are dangerous. And possibly the Argies.
So moving from 3 to 2 is I think demanding, not impossible but demanding. Slipping, on the other hand, even 1 place and yes the pressure will be there. -
Personally I'd be happy if he announced O'Gara in his coaching setup. But I think O'Gara has eyes on coaching Ireland (although if Farrell keeps on winning, good luck with that).
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@Bones said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah Leon I find a bit underwhelming with the talent he has available - but maybe if he's focussing on one area as an assistant, he might be pretty good. Hard to say though...
you bastards are harsh. Comes into a dysfunctional organisation that's starting to change, turns things around, wins 15 on the bounce, takes the Blues from cellar dwellers to 'underwhelmed because not No1', and a full Eden Park for multiple weekends. Wins all over the place.
weaknesses are not getting a high quality tight 5 with backups, and playing some people (BB) who turned things around for him too long. The Blues are clearly a far better side than they were when he took over, despite a poor start (patchwork tight 5 exposed with injuries).
