All Blacks 2023
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
my feeling as NZR has fundamentally fuck up rugby in NZ, putting all the focus on the AB's and deciding the best players can just be identified in isolation....rather than focusing on just a stable and engaging domestic/super comp and understanding a great comp will just develop great players
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
my feeling as NZR has fundamentally fuck up rugby in NZ, putting all the focus on the AB's and deciding the best players can just be identified in isolation....rather than focusing on just a stable and engaging domestic/super comp and understanding a great comp will just develop great players
I actually think that they do the latter already and that is part of the problem. They leave the cream to rise to the top then get players up to test match speed through AB camps.
Others have pointed out that development from NZR does exist but I question whether it is simply generalised fast tracking. Getting players aligned around training discipline, nutrition, professional standards, language and terminology etc. Of course there will be some specific skills training such as scrum coaching, technique to keep within laws etc but I suggest that it needs to go further.
We can all see that our on field generals in the first five position don't play a style that works at test level. Why are we developing those skills and thinking? Who is doing tactical awareness, kicking strategy etc at an academy level? -
@Crucial which latter part? you think NZR is focusing on a good domestic comps?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial which latter part? you think NZR is focusing on a good domestic comps?
I think they are relying on the comps to highlight and produce the talent (great players) then they will take over and do the polishing.
Our comps are about as stable and engaging as they are going to get at the moment. -
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
I don't think blaming everything on Foster and/or the people who appointed him helps us much, if at all. Problems almost certainly run way deeper than that and probably go back for years with a complacency that NZ rugby and rugby players are somehow inherently superior to anyone else.
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
100% agree with this.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
agreed, saw the NRL boss on the news the other day talking about the success of the dolphins and their plans for the future, aiming at another NZ team, South Aus, West Aus, the pacific and even PNG...and we have two seperate comps jammed together and basically keep falling back on "kiwis love rugby...thats all we need"
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
I don't think blaming everything on Foster
while I agree with alot of what you say, I do think Foster and his team has a responsibility to go to the people that matter that he has a problem area/s that needs addressing, after which then it would technically be someone elses problem if not dealt with (although again, he should still be over wanting to make it right)
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
I don't think blaming everything on Foster and/or the people who appointed him helps us much, if at all. Problems almost certainly run way deeper than that and probably go back for years with a complacency that NZ rugby and rugby players are somehow inherently superior to anyone else.
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
100% agree with this.
So what have you fellas done about it? Have you actually put forward suggestions in the NZR review? Or got suggestions who or what should be done? I will add I didn't as I haven't got great ideas what should be done.
I not disagreeing that changes could be made, bloody easy for us to say it without having answers isn't it? -
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
...... bloody easy for us to say it without having answers isn't it?
are you new? thats kind of the vibe here
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
I don't think blaming everything on Foster and/or the people who appointed him helps us much, if at all. Problems almost certainly run way deeper than that and probably go back for years with a complacency that NZ rugby and rugby players are somehow inherently superior to anyone else.
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
100% agree with this.
So what have you fellas done about it? Have you actually put forward suggestions in the NZR review? Or got suggestions who or what should be done?
I not disagreeing that changes could be made, bloody easy for us to say it without having answers isn't it?read my post earlier about a bridging coaching programme .
you really do love and protect the NZR don't you, blind loyalty. -
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
I don't think blaming everything on Foster and/or the people who appointed him helps us much, if at all. Problems almost certainly run way deeper than that and probably go back for years with a complacency that NZ rugby and rugby players are somehow inherently superior to anyone else.
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
100% agree with this.
So what have you fellas done about it? Have you actually put forward suggestions in the NZR review? Or got suggestions who or what should be done?
I not disagreeing that changes could be made, bloody easy for us to say it without having answers isn't it?read my post earlier about a bridging coaching programme .
you really do love and protect the NZR don't you, blind loyalty.No but I wonder why people who are so upset or dislike them so much don't actually do something. Oh apart from moan on forums. And if I do appear loyal to NZ rugby, I am , you may find being loyal distasteful, I don't. Doen't mean I don't think they can't improve things, because I do, just I find it hard to be always as negative as you seem to enjoy..
It's not a problem , we are just different, I look to positives , some to negatives, and I find nothing wrong with anyone who takes different track to me, and I don't feel the need to try and insult them for it. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
...... bloody easy for us to say it without having answers isn't it?
are you new? thats kind of the vibe here
Lol yep I know mate, why we come in here, it's easy!
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
So who is responsible for dropping the ball here NZR,Foster as AB Hc who has a part in development ideas etc for the elite young players coming though or all of them.
It seems they have sat back on their hands not looking to keep moving to stay ahead, and let other countries fly right past them in development of the next few tiers of players coming though.
I don't think blaming everything on Foster and/or the people who appointed him helps us much, if at all. Problems almost certainly run way deeper than that and probably go back for years with a complacency that NZ rugby and rugby players are somehow inherently superior to anyone else.
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
NZ rugby really needs to take a good hard look at itself and plot a way forward.
100% agree with this.
So what have you fellas done about it? Have you actually put forward suggestions in the NZR review? Or got suggestions who or what should be done?
I not disagreeing that changes could be made, bloody easy for us to say it without having answers isn't it?read my post earlier about a bridging coaching programme .
you really do love and protect the NZR don't you, blind loyalty.No but I wonder why people who are so upset or dislike them so much don't actually do something. Oh apart from moan on forums. And if I do appear loyal to NZ rugby, I am , you may find being loyal distasteful, I don't. Doen't mean I don't think they can't improve things, because I do, just I find it hard to be always as negative as you seem to enjoy..
It's not a problem , we are just different, I look to positives , some to negatives, and I find nothing wrong with anyone who takes different track to me, and I don't feel the need to try and insult them for it.I have not insulted them on this instance, I suggested they have dropped the ball on development of the elite talent coming though.
We have sit back here and let countries go past us that is obvious to everyone.
If we do not ask questions and challenge things how do they get better ?
I have already suggested a bridging Coaching Programme to connect to the AB's to develop more aware International players as you can not expect the SR clubs to do that they are trying to win a comp to keep their jobs in place.
I am involved in pathways develop and coaching programmes here in Australian cricket and it works very well.
How about the NZR look at how other countries and sports are doing it and take the best from each one to develop one that works for young NZ rugby players.
Because waiting for the clubs to produce international players and hoping a 3 day AB camp now and again is sufficient enough to do the job it is just plan lazy. -
@Chris with all respect Chris you seem a bit blind to a lot of what the NZRU staff and contractors are and have been doing. They have to tread a fine line on many things with Sport NZ employees sponsors and other various stakeholders. I think they do a good job especially when compared to other sports in NZ.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris with all respect Chris you seem a bit blind to a lot of what the NZRU staff and contractors are and have been doing. They have to tread a fine line on many things with Sport NZ employees sponsors and other various stakeholders. I think they do a good job especially when compared to other sports in NZ.
look they are way behind the 8 ball here in regard to elite development I see it working really well over here in Cricket and AFL,NZ could learn a lot and be better.
I suppose if you don't see what other sports are doing with their elite young athletes you think everything is fine in your own back yard.
But honestly NZ are a long way behind in this field and dropping further behind.
I was talking to a certain NZ player who played in the Big Bash this season he was amazed at what resources he had available to him just at a 20/20 franchise level in Australia compared to what he had available as a Black Cap in NZ. -
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris reiko wants 4 year deal with nzrfu otherwise he mite b lost for a year or to but think he's got it big money tho
Interesting again it is the way of the world,Players are money driven more and more and you can't blame them it is a short career.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris with all respect Chris you seem a bit blind to a lot of what the NZRU staff and contractors are and have been doing. They have to tread a fine line on many things with Sport NZ employees sponsors and other various stakeholders. I think they do a good job especially when compared to other sports in NZ.
look they are way behind the 8 ball here in regard to elite development I see it working really well over here in Cricket and AFL,NZ could learn a lot and be better.
I suppose if you don't see what other sports are doing with their elite young athletes you think everything is fine in your own back yard.
But honestly NZ are a long way behind in this field and dropping further behind.
I was talking to a certain NZ player who played in the Big Bash this season he was amazed at what resources he had available to him just at a 20/20 franchise level in Australia compared to what he had available as a Black Cap in NZ.I would imagine NZC is quite a bit behind Aus at cricket development Chris, but by same token I think NZ are quite some way ahead of NZC. They do have a pretty good development system from my experience, with almost all young fellas getting resources etc needed to promote them through. Perhaps the Irish have developed a pretty good system where they steer a hell of a lot through the Leinster system, and I personally don't want same here in NZ. I not sure where you get idea a 3 day AB camp is all they do, compared to other teams from around world. I do think we have been caught somewhat in development, and was always going to be case when pro rugby came in, no excuses etc, but we always punched above weight etc, and at moment we are not blessed with too many all time greats etc that we have been blessed with 2007-2016, and there in lies one of the reasons we have to work harder I think.. We still in a country where our rugby board is pouring a good amount of cash etc to kids/grassroots rugby. Which is their job first and foremost, it is to run rugby in whole country, not just the ABs. I actuallyalways thought when in Aus from what I saw AFL over there was similar and why the game was so strong. I will always judge how and rugby board operates by how they promote game at grassroots etc. But anyway apologies this thread is about All Blacks and somehow has (and I one that has joined) has let it become about NZR, which is nothing to do with thread!
