ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?
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@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
Beaudy at 10? That's 'winning'?
Tight 5 aside, the team has been very disappointing
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@nzzp said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
Beaudy at 10? That's 'winning'?
Tight 5 aside, the team has been very disappointing
That’s my point. Picking any player he wants will result in more winning. Mo’unga would be a better choice.
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@taniwharugby said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 and sustainability, that IMO goes out the window if this change is made, given we are already teetering on the edge.
I’m not sure about that. Rugby players will always want to play for the AB’s. Rugby won’t just go away, the culture is too strong.
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@nzzp said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
Beaudy at 10? That's 'winning'?
Tight 5 aside, the team has been very disappointing
That’s my point. Picking any player he wants will result in more winning. Mo’unga would be a better choice.
Not picking the best 10 in the squad, let alone eligible is the issue
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@nzzp said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
Beaudy at 10? That's 'winning'?
Tight 5 aside, the team has been very disappointing
That’s my point. Picking any player he wants will result in more winning. Mo’unga would be a better choice.
Picking any Crusaders he wants you mean. Your post relies on the premise he always picks the best available players.
Mounga didn't actually walk on water, he hung out the back and waited for far props to enter from the bench before he tried anything, not sure he is even still in the form he was.Oh and Sititi isn't in the tight five. Clarke has got better and Lakai, Proctor and Love showed promise. Damn I just promoted too many Hurricanes...
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@nzzp said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@MN5 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Beaver was getting quite hot under the collar there.
…….and good on him too, what a welcome change from the circle jerk Razor fluffers we’ve become so accustomed to.
I don’t like razor, but why not let him pick the players he wants? He was picked to be a winning coach and wants to pick players who play out of the country. This circle the wagons mentality from NZ rugby is shortsighted and is hurting your national team. Laughable that beaver thinks players have to sacrifice money play for the jersey. These are professional players!
Fundamentally disagree.
Right now SA are doing OK picking overseas players. There is no guarantee that this lasts though. England and France lost control of their players to clubs - and I think suffered as a result. When you lose control of the players, conditioning and style of play you also struggle to get them into camp, and to have them in the shape you want for the style you want. NZR had an advantage (like Wales) that they contracted players and therefore could manage workloads, etc.
You also have season issues in NZ. Playing up north means you get fresh players (rusty?) at the end of SH season, and tired players for the June internationals. Plus the travel.
Then you go to the comp. Take out the players, the quality drops further and the ability to generate revenue reduces. Works for SA as they mostly play in URC - because timezone works... so not having to fund or operate a competition like Super.
The upside is you get to pick the best players wherever they play.
Overall, I think it is short sighted and would ruin our domestic comps. The root cause though is that Super and NPC are shadows of what they were. When they were the best comps, you saw NZ SA AUS players shining in Tests, and players coming south looking like the pace was too much for them. That is not the case any more. After 2015 when SH dominated the semifinals, NH went away and got better. Our job is to respond and build what works for us, not to try and copy somethign we will be less at.
Losing SA from Super was massive and will have long term (bad) consequences for the SH unions I think.
thanks for coming to my Ted talk
😂😂😂
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We can't compare ourselves to SA here.
SA saw an economic oppertunity to shift from SANZAR to the north that fitted with their already exisitng TV audience and could fill the coffers even more, while allowing the flexibility to pick players from overseas (the vast majority of which are playing in the same competition already). It was a win/win scenario for them.
Given NZ teams will not be in the northern hemisphere competion, or our union reaping the financial rewards of being in that competiton all we have set to gain is the loss of our players overseas.
It's not a like for like, or apt comparision.
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Scotty Stephenson seems to think not until after this RWC cycle - that'd be funny if it happens after Razor goes!
MORE RUGBY
Eligibility rules not likely to change until 2028It appears New Zealand Rugby won’t be changing its rules around eligibility any time soon. Sources spoken to be Sidelines have said the national body sees no reason to change its policy right now and any further thoughts on the matter will only be considered after the current world cup cycle.
All Blacks Head Coach Scott Robertson has made no secret of the fact he would like New Zealand Rugby to keep an open mind on the matter, and discussed this once again after the side's final, underwhelming, match of the European tour against Italy. Credit to Robertson, his desire to have a few more experienced test players available has not been borne by the season's 10-4 record. He had discussed these matters even before the ink had dried on the All Blacks contract.
If New Zealand Rugby is to stick to its guns, that will also mean Super Rugby will be prevented from introducing greater player movement – something that long term proponents of a draft system, or an eligibility adjustment to allow players to be eligible for their national sides no matter what Super Rugby club they play for will be disappointed to hear.
There has been plenty of debate about whether rugby needs to move with the times, but it appears those times are at least three years away.
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@canefan said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
This comment from Razor kind of pisses me off
“They’ve got a got a great balance. They’ve got youth coming through, they’ve got great benches, they finish over top of teams and they’ve got big squads – they can have two really quality XVs"
And how do you know we don't Scott?
I just did the tedious process of going through our lineups this year, and the stark reality is, the selectors played the same guys all game every game.
Williams, Taylor, Lomax, Vaai, SBarrett, Savea, BBarrett, DMac JBarrett, and Ioane, all basically started every game this year, and played huge minutes. Cane, Jordan, Clarke and Patty T played every game they were available. Once Sititi took his chance, he played non stop. ALB locked in one bench spot, and started any time JB didn't. EdG was the other one if he didn't be a bit naughty.
Those guys played nearly the whole season in terms of the minutes available. No one else got a reasonable shot at anything.Most unlike Rassie
Actually, I think the ABs and springboks used the same number of players this year
What? Sarcasm or poor research? Boks played 50 players this year. A lot of the fringers got multiple opportunities by plan. Razor stuck to core and seemingly only added opportunities via injuries. Compare Hanekom to Lio Willie and Jayden Hendrikse to Harry Plummer for involvement.
The very unforgiving NZ rugby public means razor had to produce from the word go. I can’t imagine what people on here would be saying if he had lost a few more this year through blooding new players. Rassie used 52 actually.
This is patently incorrect mate. If you had taken time to read much of what the boards on here were saying, most of us wanted Razor to properly trial new players, as it would appear Rassie did. I for one would have accepted some losses in that situation . Razor by comparison stuck to playing a bunch of his ageing veterans, some of which are not fit to start anymore and selected a few young players who he failed to seriously use. So we failed to blood new players, and failed to win all our games. The wider NZ public are generally drinking Razor's Kool aid
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
Which we can easily do with the players available.
If he picks the best players available to him.
Your shaky opinion that Mounga is better than DMac as the basis for NZ changing what has worked for 30 years is almost as hilarious as trying to call me an apartheid supporter.
Still, will make it even funnier when SA exit their purple patch.
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even if the old guard has done the clean sweep this year (which they didn't) im not sure the idea "its about winning" is correct if its only the next game we're talking about
my concern is we took a pass mark this year with some ugly wins using lots of known quantities....but was that the best move to ensuring we get wins in the coming years and the next RWC
are the wins we got this year worth potentially having more pain next year or the year after when forced to play young guys when the old ones are even further from their prime, would some pain this year when making a more deliberate move to blood the next generation not have been better, i think so
I feel in 2021 we were begrudging fozzie for taking so long to lock in a best 23...and feel we could be doing the same thing if next year is the experiment year....then 2026 will be the consolidate year before the 2027 world cup...it works IF....things fall into place, i feel we've used our buffer time just trying to win from week to week this year
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@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
Which we can easily do with the players available.
If he picks the best players available to him.
Your shaky opinion that Mounga is better than DMac as the basis for NZ changing what has worked for 30 years is almost as hilarious as trying to call me an apartheid supporter.
Still, will make it even funnier when SA exit their purple patch.
Ok. Do you think it will be razor or someone else who takes the ABs back to the top?
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@Kiwiwomble What positions are you really worried about?
For the next World Cup our front row already looks largely sorted.
We've got a flood of talented youngsters coming through at lock if Patty and/or Scott fail.
I'd like to find a tall blindside (Finau/Parker/Wrampling/Frizell) - but Sititi has done a fabulous job this year - he's cover if Ardie should fail at 8, but I see no reason he will. Paps and Lakai can duel for the openside (Peter looks like a young Michael Jones, so Dalton has his work cut out).
We've used five halfbacks this year - four of them can readily go through to 2027 and there's a couple of others in the mix.
First five - Mo'unga. DMac, Barrett, Jacomb - if Beaudy fails we need to have a third guy.
Midfield - would be good to upgrade ALB and Havili, but I'm perfectly comfortable if we don't find a combo better than Jordie and Rieko as starters.
We need to find a new right wing or two - because Mark and Sevu seem unlikely to make it to 2027.
Jordan might go back there if Love can surpass him, but I doubt that will happen.
Really, I reckon we've already pretty much got 75 percent of the puzzle for 2027 - and a lot of the rest is hoping for upgrades on positions we're already comfortable with.
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@ARHS said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
Are you an ex-Crusader angling for a bigger pay cheque and international exposure? That is the vibe you give.
It’s about winning
Which we can easily do with the players available.
If he picks the best players available to him.
Your shaky opinion that Mounga is better than DMac as the basis for NZ changing what has worked for 30 years is almost as hilarious as trying to call me an apartheid supporter.
Still, will make it even funnier when SA exit their purple patch.
Ok. Do you think it will be razor or someone else who takes the ABs back to the top?
Razor ignored a bunch of guys in great form and still almost did it with a bunch of has beens and never weres, so I don't see why he can't. Remember how both tests against SA were in SA? Yeah that won't be the case next year.
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@MN5 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Beaver was getting quite hot under the collar there.
…….and good on him too, what a welcome change from the circle jerk Razor fluffers we’ve become so accustomed to.
I don’t like razor, but why not let him pick the players he wants? He was picked to be a winning coach and wants to pick players who play out of the country. This circle the wagons mentality from NZ rugby is shortsighted and is hurting your national team. Laughable that beaver thinks players have to sacrifice money play for the jersey. These are professional players!
I'm prepared to back Jake White over this disconnected waffle.
Sure, justify your viewpoint even if it means siding with a clown
It says something when White is more in touch with the vibe than you eh.
The vibe? Sorry, didn’t realize I was supposed to be vibing. With your provincial comps not doing well and rugby generally in decline in NZ picking players that will allow NZ to return to the top will incentivize youngsters to play and will pay off in the long term. It will also give more players exposure to rugby in places other than NZ and give them the chance to be noticed. Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
He got the job knowing his resources. He got what he wanted. He wants to change the goal posts for short term gain.
SA have made their choice, and parochialism is influencing some people's opinions. We did this, thus our way is the best...
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@booboo said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@MN5 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Beaver was getting quite hot under the collar there.
…….and good on him too, what a welcome change from the circle jerk Razor fluffers we’ve become so accustomed to.
I don’t like razor, but why not let him pick the players he wants? He was picked to be a winning coach and wants to pick players who play out of the country. This circle the wagons mentality from NZ rugby is shortsighted and is hurting your national team. Laughable that beaver thinks players have to sacrifice money play for the jersey. These are professional players!
I'm prepared to back Jake White over this disconnected waffle.
Sure, justify your viewpoint even if it means siding with a clown
It says something when White is more in touch with the vibe than you eh.
The vibe? Sorry, didn’t realize I was supposed to be vibing. With your provincial comps not doing well and rugby generally in decline in NZ picking players that will allow NZ to return to the top will incentivize youngsters to play and will pay off in the long term. It will also give more players exposure to rugby in places other than NZ and give them the chance to be noticed. Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
He got the job knowing his resources. He got what he wanted. He wants to change the goal posts for short term gain.
SA have made their choice, and parochialism is influencing some people's opinions. We did this, thus our way is the best...
Not at all. The point I was making is that if you give the coach what he wants, he’s more likely to produce his best effort. Treating him like a spoilt child might not be productive.
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Picking any player he wants will result in more winning.
Assertion isn't an argument.
