Springboks v All Blacks 2
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Interesting game but not perfect.
Still some poor options from our 22. Both Mounga and Havili guilty but have to say that Mounga’s better kicking game gave us a lot more territory and generally he was quite good. Havili gives us a good kicking game from second five but plays too foot loose and fancy free for me for a 2nd five in tests. Really liked Reiko on the wing. He is a better player than before and out wide where he will get space he was great.
Forwards went a lot better. Scrum solid, and props mobile but lineout steals made a huge difference.
The balance in the loose forwards is interesting. What do we want our 7 doing - smashing runners in tackles ( more Cane type player, though not sure he does that as much ) or winning turnovers, running, linking as Savea does? Savea is better player and probably should be the open side, allowing us to have tighter 6,8. Big bodies are important but is Shannon Frizzell the answer? Would have to watch him closely.
Didn’t see ref applying the rule we players leaning over and putting hands on ground before trying to steal the ball? Helps them win the space at ruck time so would like to see that rule policed.
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@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@booboo adding a picture to a booboo is still a booboo.
You hadn't posted when I went looking for the screenshot. Doesn't count.
12 minutes?
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Was really impressed with De Groot tonight. Bought some real steel to his game especially in defence and cleaning out.
The decision to sell Karl “going over overseas” T ahead of DG was awful
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@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@booboo adding a picture to a booboo is still a booboo.
You hadn't posted when I went looking for the screenshot. Doesn't count.
12 minutes?
I'm a technophobe.
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@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm left with this niggling thought though.... just where was that desire, drive and want the last half a dozen tests?
I think all these things have been present during the season so far. Our problems haven't been attitude.
Today passes stuck and high balls were caught. But it's s concerning we conceded so many points against a limited SA attack.
Edit: and as mentioned a few posts above SA almost stole this, if it wasn't for a bit of brilliance from our own goal line. Sound familiar?
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@kev said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Didn’t see ref applying the rule we players leaning over and putting hands on ground before trying to steal the ball? Helps them win the space at ruck time so would like to see that rule policed.
A couple of times when they did it and we called for it he had excuses not to award. 'You stepped back' and 'you pulled him'.
So either he was right in the interpretation or every other ref on the circuit XVs and Sevens got the memo and he didn't. Who knows? -
Rieko really benefitted from us playing deeper on attack. It was great to see him able to run onto the ball and get a head of steam up before getting to the defensive line, he had a number of strong carries as a result throughout the match and grew in confidence.
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My first thoughts, what a great game of Rugby with tension, suspense, and some great tries.
Credit to the Ref, overall, he was consistent even if a few were wrong. He communicated well and was in control of the game.
Hats off to RM, his clearing kicks and exists bar the disaster were very good. His tactical kicking was pretty good and we seemed in control.
I though RI was very busy and had some good touches, but the midfield is a bit of a disaster, every time we seemed to put it through the hands or try a move it ended up on the ground or in touch.
What is wrong with Jordan, I guess he is either a fullback or not in the side, I feel Reece would have been far better.
Credit to Ryan, that forward effort was far superior, and I cannot recall that many turnovers this week so we protected it much more. The forwards really stepped up and is the reason we won, simple as that.
Now the forwards seem to be playing better we need a new attack coach that can sort out the backs.
SA lost in the set piece, this must have been their worst performance in a very long time, I lost count the amount of lineouts and scrums that did not go their way which is the cornerstone of their play.
It's ironic that SA look very good with ball in play and their wingers in space is very exciting.
Apart from the scrum penalty and few dodgy lineout throws I thought ST was very dominant out there. I have been worried about our props but I think Bower, EDG and Newell show there is some talent coming through.
We have the stock, we just need to have a consistent plan and good coaching. Overall, a wonderful game and well done to the boys in black to win in that environment.
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@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
My first thoughts, what a great game of Rugby with tension, suspense, and some great tries.
Credit to the Ref, overall, he was consistent even if a few were wrong. He communicated well and was in control of the game.
Hats off to RM, his clearing kicks and exists bar the disaster were very good. His tactical kicking was pretty good and we seemed in control.
I though RI was very busy and had some good touches, but the midfield is a bit of a disaster, every time we seemed to put it through the hands or try a move it ended up on the ground or in touch.
What is wrong with Jordan, I guess he is either a fullback or not in the side, I feel Reece would have been far better.
Credit to Ryan, that forward effort was far superior, and I cannot recall that many turnovers this week so we protected it much more. The forwards really stepped up and is the reason we won, simple as that.
Now the forwards seem to be playing better we need a new attack coach that can sort out the backs.
SA lost in the set piece, this must have been their worst performance in a very long time, I lost count the amount of lineouts and scrums that did not go their way which is the cornerstone of their play.
It's ironic that SA look very good with ball in play and their wingers in space is very exciting.
Apart from the scrum penalty and few dodgy lineout throws I thought ST was very dominant out there. I have been worried about our props but I think Bower, EDG and Newell show there is some talent coming through.
We have the stock, we just need to have a consistent plan and good coaching. Overall, a wonderful game and well done to the boys in black to win in that environment.
That's a performance you can build on.
Positives - Defence has been good for 2 tests in a row now. Set piece was good today and edged the best set piece team in world rugby at their spiritual home. Forward drives were effective and committed Bok defenders. ABs scored 4 tries against the best defensive team in world rugby.
Negatives - Backline still lacks cohesion and doesn't offer as much threat as it should. Kicking game was better today, but still isn't consistent enough. Team still gives away too many penalities to relieve pressure Will Jordan is struggling on right wing a bit, which removes a key attacking weapon. Still not convinced about back row balance.
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@pakman Yup, may already have been posted but yes Wayne Smith ...
The whiteboard session that proved Ma'a Nonu as an All Blacks great (https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-whiteboard-session-that-proved-maa-nonu-as-an-all-blacks-great/)
Rewatching the game now
... may post later -
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Fozzie did say he felt something special was brewing.
I wouldn't go as fast as saying that was a special performance except in the context of the last 5 weeks.
That, to me was more reminiscent of an AB performance bouncing back after a loss.
Were patches where the ghosts of the past couple of months returned, but by and large, one of the better 80 mins of the past couple of years.
Will it be a stay of execution for Fozzie, who knows, but if he and his coaching team can get a forward performance like that more often, we might just start that climb back toward #1
Putting aside all our dramas even ,
I guess it was a great result considering this is supposed to be a great bok side ( according to all the online South African rugby supporters ) at their fortress
Funnily enough , before the season , if you were to look at all the games , you might pencil in this one as the toughest to win .
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@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Fozzie did say he felt something special was brewing.
I wouldn't go as fast as saying that was a special performance except in the context of the last 5 weeks.
That, to me was more reminiscent of an AB performance bouncing back after a loss.
Were patches where the ghosts of the past couple of months returned, but by and large, one of the better 80 mins of the past couple of years.
Will it be a stay of execution for Fozzie, who knows, but if he and his coaching team can get a forward performance like that more often, we might just start that climb back toward #1
Putting aside all our dramas even ,
I guess it was a great result considering this is supposed to be a great bok side ( according to all the online South African rugby supporters ) at their fortress
Funnily enough , before the season , if you were to look at all the games , you might pencil in this one as the toughest to win .
I guess that is the beauty of sport isn't it, the result is never gauranteed and if you perform on the day, you always have a chance.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm left with this niggling thought though.... just where was that desire, drive and want the last half a dozen tests?
I think all these things have been present during the season so far. Our problems haven't been attitude.
Today passes stuck and high balls were caught. But it's s concerning we conceded so many points against a limited SA attack.
Passes did not stick.
We dropped ball in the midfield all game, and threw a very soft intercept as well. We just didn't get punished for it today.
South Africa's attack is not "limited", it is simply direct. This is test rugby, and fancy stuff in the middle of the field just doesn't work, and they wisely don't try. They were more than capable of spreading the ball wide and finding lots of space, which they did all game. The lack of lineout mauls did hurt them though -- but then again, everyone knows they are going to do it and still usually can't stop them.
The ABs were very lucky in the middle of the second half when it was getting very crunchy that a penalty was overturned for the tackle after the whistle followed soon after by an enormous mid-field break being recalled for a very small infringement (of the sort we did several of). That was massive points swing, just as we looked to be losing our way.
The ABs played some good rugby, probably the better rugby, but this iteration of the team have no ability to control games. We remain largely at the mercy of how the other side want to play. Today the Boks didn't set out the "defend and feed off scraps" stall, and we took advantage of that.
It will be interesting to see whether Foster has learned that while Beauden Barrett is at #10 our backs suck, that Reiko Ioane is a winger and that even when we play well our helter-skelter methods leave us vulnerable. I doubt it, given previous form, but the next selections will be interesting.
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@Chester-Draws said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm left with this niggling thought though.... just where was that desire, drive and want the last half a dozen tests?
I think all these things have been present during the season so far. Our problems haven't been attitude.
Today passes stuck and high balls were caught. But it's s concerning we conceded so many points against a limited SA attack.
Passes did not stick.
We dropped ball in the midfield all game, and threw a very soft intercept as well. We just didn't get punished for it today.
South Africa's attack is not "limited", it is simply direct. This is test rugby, and fancy stuff in the middle of the field just doesn't work, and they wisely don't try. They were more than capable of spreading the ball wide and finding lots of space, which they did all game. The lack of lineout mauls did hurt them though -- but then again, everyone knows they are going to do it and still usually can't stop them.
The ABs were very lucky in the middle of the second half when it was getting very crunchy that a penalty was overturned for the tackle after the whistle followed soon after by an enormous mid-field break being recalled for a very small infringement (of the sort we did several of). That was massive points swing, just as we looked to be losing our way.
The ABs played some good rugby, probably the better rugby, but this iteration of the team have no ability to control games. We remain largely at the mercy of how the other side want to play. Today the Boks didn't set out the "defend and feed off scraps" stall, and we took advantage of that.
It will be interesting to see whether Foster has learned that while Beauden Barrett is at #10 our backs suck, that Reiko Ioane is a winger and that even when we play well our helter-skelter methods leave us vulnerable. I doubt it, given previous form, but the next selections will be interesting.
All of this. We were not far away from losing so changes still required.
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To be a bit negative in outlook, I am still concerned about our kicking game. Quite a few times last night RM benefited by being at altitude and clearances to relieve pressure that just put us out of danger zone would have not achieved that at sea level.
Why is it that we always use our 10 to kick to touch when there is a much bigger boot at 15? Even from penalties and FKs? At that ground JB could have been doing a Roger Gould and peeling off huge distance. -
Yew! Too much! Great game good win!!
Not perfect but then who is?? Huge Improvement in 7 days in a couple of key areas and she was a different game.
Took a little while to stick, but then the Cane try was fucking gorgeous and from there we took charge. SA didn't go away but after our 2nd try they were fucked.
Then the whole game changed in an instant. The Boks subbed their starting front row for actual good players. And we completely stuffed that exit. We were basically 2nd best from then until strangely BB got carded. Game ground to a halt with penalties and errors and we got ground down
But the last 10 was fucking sensational.
Huge improvement up front. Huge improvement in the air. Far more simple on attack. Completely different game.
That's a good win, and anyone not giving the coach and thr captain credit for it have given up all semblance of objectivity
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Every single player except BB contributed positively. I reckon nearly everyone made errors but who cares? They didn't let them get them down
Even BB contributed by getting carded and somehow galvanising the side.
Baby black front row huge. Locks big games. Shannon fucking Frizzell put in a shift. A Savea with key moments, S Cane a fucking warrior.
A Smith ran the ball which surprised the fuck out of the Boks. Mo'unga played a great passing game. Havili with some nice touches and a couple of good kicks. Ioane had a whale of a game at centre. Clarke is very difficult to handle. Jordan dealt with his kicks and took thr chance that led to the win. JBs best game for fucking ages, his game in the air was a massive change to last week.
Bench forwards all contributed. Tupaea played fucking flanker. Just a good team win.
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@Chester-Draws said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm left with this niggling thought though.... just where was that desire, drive and want the last half a dozen tests?
I think all these things have been present during the season so far. Our problems haven't been attitude.
Today passes stuck and high balls were caught. But it's s concerning we conceded so many points against a limited SA attack.
Passes did not stick.
We dropped ball in the midfield all game, and threw a very soft intercept as well. We just didn't get punished for it today.
South Africa's attack is not "limited", it is simply direct. This is test rugby, and fancy stuff in the middle of the field just doesn't work, and they wisely don't try. They were more than capable of spreading the ball wide and finding lots of space, which they did all game. The lack of lineout mauls did hurt them though -- but then again, everyone knows they are going to do it and still usually can't stop them.
The ABs were very lucky in the middle of the second half when it was getting very crunchy that a penalty was overturned for the tackle after the whistle followed soon after by an enormous mid-field break being recalled for a very small infringement (of the sort we did several of). That was massive points swing, just as we looked to be losing our way.
The ABs played some good rugby, probably the better rugby, but this iteration of the team have no ability to control games. We remain largely at the mercy of how the other side want to play. Today the Boks didn't set out the "defend and feed off scraps" stall, and we took advantage of that.
It will be interesting to see whether Foster has learned that while Beauden Barrett is at #10 our backs suck, that Reiko Ioane is a winger and that even when we play well our helter-skelter methods leave us vulnerable. I doubt it, given previous form, but the next selections will be interesting.
Limited or direct. I don't really care what word is used. Yeah sure we may have dropped some but I don't recall too many momentum killers.
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Exits were by far our biggest worry but in almost every case the problems came from poor decisions rather than poor execution so hopefully that was a symptom of trying a little too hard. When it comes off (eg Jordan from the claimed mark) we can be lethal but the risk/reward didn't balance overall
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I don't recall Jordan being as disappointing as some are suggesting. I thought he did what he needed to do. Were there some stand out errors from him I have forgotten?
