Springboks v All Blacks I
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Frye Possible advantage but Iaone is athletic and to my knowledge has always been a good lineout option. Some on here seem to forget this.
Yes I was wondering how he compares in the lineout against Frizell.
Certainly seems to make more metres ball in hand from the lineout. -
@Machpants said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Winger said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Machpants
jordie didn't set the world on fire at 2nd 5. Prefer him at FB unless he moves in full time for the canes and ABsTrue but he won't get outmuscled like havili has been. He can kick, distribute, his defence is ok, he's a better player all round than havili. Also has a higher ceiling if we stick with him there, Jordan too fullback is a positive, too. The ABs gameplan had things which don't suit the team chosen, lots of kicking by Beaudy, for example. Another piece of the foster genius is Havili hitting it up at 12, with absolutely no impact. Well the impact being going backwards and possible turn overs
Well if Jordie goes to 12 I assume Jordan goes to 15 and we need another winger. But since they benched Reece it looks like we have more inform wingers than 12s!
I do worry that Havili will have his confidence knocked again. He looked gun shy in earlier tests when they kept playing him at 12 then giving him hospital passes.
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@Duluth said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Frye said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
they've gone for the hail mary move which is to select Clarke
I think Clarke is who they always intended to pick. This is the first Test this year he's been fit to play
One wing being a power winger, one wing being a second fullback is a good balance. Clarke is much much faster than the other power option (LF) and he has some special aerial skills. I expect to see him used during kickoffs
Clarke is a better all round power winger than Fainga’anuku who is still improving and rounding out his game. If Clarke is fit he’s first choice in 11 jersey.
I know a lot of peeps are calling for Jordan for 15 and I agree he’s the form 15 in NZ. It’s just against the Boks, Jordie is a better fit to blunt their kicking game.
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@Machpants said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Winger said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Machpants
jordie didn't set the world on fire at 2nd 5. Prefer him at FB unless he moves in full time for the canes and ABsTrue but he won't get outmuscled like havili has been. He can kick, distribute, his defence is ok, he's a better player all round than havili. Also has a higher ceiling if we stick with him there, Jordan too fullback is a positive, too. The ABs gameplan had things which don't suit the team chosen, lots of kicking by Beaudy, for example. Another piece of the foster genius is havili hitting it up at 12, with absolutely no impact. Well the impact being going backwards and possible turn overs
Agree Jordie move to 12 would’ve been preferable but TBH it’s too late now with RWC next year. He’s at 15 who can play 14 and cover 12 if there are injuries.
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I think it is "put your neck on the line and make some predictions" time for this game.
I'll start:
It will transpire that the AB's are actually much better than currently being credited.
And if they beat the Boks, the northern hemisphere scribes will deliriously pontificate on how the power in rugby has shifted up north and the World Cup is going to be a battle between Ireland, England and France. -
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@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I think it is "put your neck on the line and make some predictions" time for this game.
I'll start:
It will transpire that the AB's are actually much better than currently being credited.
And if they beat the Boks, the northern hemisphere scribes will deliriously pontificate on how the power in rugby has shifted up north and the World Cup is going to be a battle between Ireland, England and France.Conversely, maybe Ireland are actually pretty good?
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Has anyone mentioned how shit our TH props are for this test? Hardly would strike fear into the local kindy, let alone the raw meat eating Neanderthals that the Boers seem to churn out for their 1 and 3 jumpers.
We're in serious schtuk if we have any scrum on our own line.
Yes, I have no faith in Angus or Lomax, it could be a long night. But will be happy to be proved wrong!
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@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Hmmm...
Springbok team:
15 Damian Willemse, 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Jasper Wiese, 7 Pieter-Step du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Trevor NyakaneSubstitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Salmaan Moerat, 20 Franco Mostert, 21 Kwagga Smith, 22 Jaden Hendrikse, 23 Willie le Roux
The Bok team is ok, but I am not super thrilled. Here are my main areas of doubt:
a. Trevor Nyakane: I love this guy. His passion and his mobility are great assets, but is he one of 2 of our best loosehead props? When it comes to scrum time, I don't think so. Hope he makes me eat my words though!!
b. Salmaan Moerat: has potential to develop but not yet our 3rd best lock ... surely?! And I get the thing about gaining experience etc. but this is the All Blacks we are facing FFS.
c. Jasper Wiese: OMG where do I start. Nienaber describes him as a longterm project. Bloody hell, he has 13 caps under the belt already. How many more times do we need to see how limited he is, especially in SA conditions before we abandon the "project"? Surely, if you want a long term project, someone who already knows how to catch, pass, run into space would be a better place to start?
My issue with Nyakane is actually the opposite, i think he will do well in the scrums, but he offers much less around the park than Ox (is he injured?)
Nyakane had issues in Wales three and were conned early in the england game last year, but I don't think he'll be fooled as easily again and on proper pitch his brute power should win out.
As for Moerat - hes not Snyman, but if we are going with 6-2 bench (which i dont think we should) then he is right pick to keep the physical pressure on the All Blacks.
Fuck knows what Rasnaber sees in Wiese. He only has one dimension (carrier). So the squad contains five candidates for the no 8 jerseys each of whom is at least equal to Wiese as a carrier while bringing other skills to the team.
We desparately need Pollard to find form. If he plays well I am very confident that we'll win and win well, but I also have almost zero confidence that he'll do that so yeah, its a fifty fifty game.
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I think it is "put your neck on the line and make some predictions" time for this game.
I'll start:
It will transpire that the AB's are actually much better than currently being credited.
And if they beat the Boks, the northern hemisphere scribes will deliriously pontificate on how the power in rugby has shifted up north and the World Cup is going to be a battle between Ireland, England and France.Conversely, maybe Ireland are actually pretty good?
Partly disagree. I don't think Ireland are pretty good. I think they are bloody good!
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@Halfout said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
The ABs will need to find a way to ensure attacking ball from the middle or back of the lineout. Ireland, with a weaker lineout than SAs, effectively shut down those areas and forced NZ to throw to the front. It’s very hard to launch midfield plays when Smith is forced to pass that distance. I think it’s part of the reason why Irelands rush defence was so effective. It’s also crap ball to maul off.
Its actually worse than that, Etzebeth is the best in the world at competing at the front, New Zealand will need the middle and back (against De Jager and PSDT) to function, because the "safe" option is much less so than against other teams.
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
My issue with Nyakane is actually the opposite, i think he will do well in the scrums, but he offers much less around the park than Ox (is he injured?)
Nyakane had issues in Wales three and were conned early in the england game last year, but I don't think he'll be fooled as easily again and on proper pitch his brute power should win out.
As for Moerat - hes not Snyman, but if we are going with 6-2 bench (which i dont think we should) then he is right pick to keep the physical pressure on the All Blacks.
Fuck knows what Rasnaber sees in Wiese. He only has one dimension (carrier). So the squad contains five candidates for the no 8 jerseys each of whom is at least equal to Wiese as a carrier while bringing other skills to the team.
We desparately need Pollard to find form. If he plays well I am very confident that we'll win and win well, but I also have almost zero confidence that he'll do that so yeah, its a fifty fifty game.
Well, let's hope you're half right and I am half right when it comes to Nyakane in that he scrums better than I think, and he is better in the loose than you think Sid
Can't seem to find any news on Ox, but I have to assume he is injured?I am fine with the 6-2 concept, if we have the right players in the bombsquad. That means guys who can cover a range of positions - and be highly effective doing so. So entire front row - tick. Franco covers you for lock and blindside - tick. Not sure we need yet another lock given that onfield PSDT could also slot back in the second row. I would have liked to see Roos in place of Moerat but no doubt that is heavily influenced by Jasper's inclusion...
Kwagga actually gives you cover at 6, 8 and probably could do a job in the outside backs.
Agreed on Pollard. He needs to get his mojo fully back. I am (perhaps wishfully) thinking I saw some progress in the 3rd Wales test..?
The one point I didn't mention is Jaden Hendrikse. I like him, but his service is below par slow. He really needs to up that part of his game.
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@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
My issue with Nyakane is actually the opposite, i think he will do well in the scrums, but he offers much less around the park than Ox (is he injured?)
Nyakane had issues in Wales three and were conned early in the england game last year, but I don't think he'll be fooled as easily again and on proper pitch his brute power should win out.
As for Moerat - hes not Snyman, but if we are going with 6-2 bench (which i dont think we should) then he is right pick to keep the physical pressure on the All Blacks.
Fuck knows what Rasnaber sees in Wiese. He only has one dimension (carrier). So the squad contains five candidates for the no 8 jerseys each of whom is at least equal to Wiese as a carrier while bringing other skills to the team.
We desparately need Pollard to find form. If he plays well I am very confident that we'll win and win well, but I also have almost zero confidence that he'll do that so yeah, its a fifty fifty game.
Well, let's hope you're half right and I am half right when it comes to Nyakane in that he scrums better than I think, and he is better in the loose than you think Sid
Can't seem to find any news on Ox, but I have to assume he is injured?I am fine with the 6-2 concept, if we have the right players in the bombsquad. That means guys who can cover a range of positions - and be highly effective doing so. So entire front row - tick. Franco covers you for lock and blindside - tick. Not sure we need yet another lock given that onfield PSDT could also slot back in the second row. I would have liked to see Roos in place of Moerat but no doubt that is heavily influenced by Jasper's inclusion...
Kwagga actually gives you cover at 6, 8 and probably could do a job in the outside backs.
Agreed on Pollard. He needs to get his mojo fully back. I am (perhaps wishfully) thinking I saw some progress in the 3rd Wales test..?
The one point I didn't mention is Jaden Hendrikse. I like him, but his service is below par slow. He really needs to up that part of his game.
You sound like an AB supporter from several years ago nit picking at the odd selection, but deep down knowing that the majority of the best players available have been selected and if they play well will likely win.
The Boks are clear, outright favourites. Consistency in selection, everyone knows the game plan, combinations are tried and tested, playing at home in front of a raucous crowd. A win should be a formality
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@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
My issue with Nyakane is actually the opposite, i think he will do well in the scrums, but he offers much less around the park than Ox (is he injured?)
Nyakane had issues in Wales three and were conned early in the england game last year, but I don't think he'll be fooled as easily again and on proper pitch his brute power should win out.
As for Moerat - hes not Snyman, but if we are going with 6-2 bench (which i dont think we should) then he is right pick to keep the physical pressure on the All Blacks.
Fuck knows what Rasnaber sees in Wiese. He only has one dimension (carrier). So the squad contains five candidates for the no 8 jerseys each of whom is at least equal to Wiese as a carrier while bringing other skills to the team.
We desparately need Pollard to find form. If he plays well I am very confident that we'll win and win well, but I also have almost zero confidence that he'll do that so yeah, its a fifty fifty game.
Well, let's hope you're half right and I am half right when it comes to Nyakane in that he scrums better than I think, and he is better in the loose than you think Sid
Can't seem to find any news on Ox, but I have to assume he is injured?I am fine with the 6-2 concept, if we have the right players in the bombsquad. That means guys who can cover a range of positions - and be highly effective doing so. So entire front row - tick. Franco covers you for lock and blindside - tick. Not sure we need yet another lock given that onfield PSDT could also slot back in the second row. I would have liked to see Roos in place of Moerat but no doubt that is heavily influenced by Jasper's inclusion...
Kwagga actually gives you cover at 6, 8 and probably could do a job in the outside backs.
Agreed on Pollard. He needs to get his mojo fully back. I am (perhaps wishfully) thinking I saw some progress in the 3rd Wales test..?
The one point I didn't mention is Jaden Hendrikse. I like him, but his service is below par slow. He really needs to up that part of his game.
You sound like an AB supporter from several years ago nit picking at the odd selection, but deep down knowing that the majority of the best players available have been selected and if they play well will likely win.
The Boks are clear, outright favourites. Consistency in selection, everyone knows the game plan, combinations are tried and tested, playing at home in front of a raucous crowd. A win should be a formality
We are definitely underdogs
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PSDT hasnt played at lock since 2018 so i dont think he is even being considered there anymore.
Having two loosies on the bench just seems too disruptive, we end up making a late change forbthe sake of it, while swapping out the locks tend to work better.
But without RG in the squad the concept doesnt make sense to me as a fresh Moerat is not going to add that much more than Etzebeth after 60 minutes (and i rate Moerat).
My issue with the 6 2 split is that doesn't allow us to make changes at the back until late in the game because we need to keep subs in reserve in case of injury.
But i can't stop thinking how much of a pain the Wiese selection is. Hes short so we need to have a tall looseforward in case something happens to Du Toit. He doesnt offer anything in ruck so we need to have Kwagga on the bench in case something happens to Marx. All for what? Hes not a better carrier than Louw or Roos who are both superior in all other aspects. Im calling it now, we are wasting valuable caps on a project that is never going to come good over at least two players that are going to be fantastic for the next decade.
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5 ABs make the Telegraph composite XV. Only 2 in the forwards. Can't really argue with many of those selections either. Maybe Barrett for Willemse. Then again, Whitelock getting in ahead of de Jager balances that out.
Saturday shouldn't even be close.
South Africa and New Zealand combined XV: How many All Blacks make our team?
With the Rugby Championship getting under way this weekend, Charlie Morgan picks his combined Springbok-All Black XV
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
PSDT hasnt played at lock since 2018 so i dont think he is even being considered there anymore.
Having two loosies on the bench just seems too disruptive, we end up making a late change forbthe sake of it, while swapping out the locks tend to work better.
But without RG in the squad the concept doesnt make sense to me as a fresh Moerat is not going to add that much more than Etzebeth after 60 minutes (and i rate Moerat).
My issue with the 6 2 split is that doesn't allow us to make changes at the back until late in the game because we need to keep subs in reserve in case of injury.
But i can't stop thinking how much of a pain the Wiese selection is. Hes short so we need to have a tall looseforward in case something happens to Du Toit. He doesnt offer anything in ruck so we need to have Kwagga on the bench in case something happens to Marx. All for what? Hes not a better carrier than Louw or Roos who are both superior in all other aspects. Im calling it now, we are wasting valuable caps on a project that is never going to come good over at least two players that are going to be fantastic for the next decade.
They love him up north. He's very similar to CJ Stander and he has legendary status in Ireland.
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Machpants said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@kev said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@TheMojoman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Billy-Tell said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Wish they would play Jordan at 15. The problem is BB is a crap goal kicker so his brother has to play.
BB is on borrowed time if he keeps trotting out nothing but aimless midfield bombs.
At least they improved the front row.
I think against the Boks, Jordie is your man at fullback. We’ll need his long kicking game and he’s our best back under the high ball. I’d be trying Jordan at fullback versus the Argies.
Jordie biggest issue is can he get through 80 minutes with a low error rate and without a major brain explosion
He did versus SA1 last year, when everyone else shat the bed under the high ball. Sure 4 years ago, I was there, but bollox recently. Want great last few games, but not many were
Speaking of SA1 last year - someone else who did great in that game was Sotutu off of the bench.
Since that game he's played against USA and Italy...... that's it.
Code name ‘Dry Powder’?
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@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
5 ABs make the Telegraph composite XV. Only 2 in the forwards. Can't really argue with many of those selections either. Maybe Barrett for Willemse. Then again, Whitelock getting in ahead of de Jager balances that out.
Saturday shouldn't even be close.
South Africa and New Zealand combined XV: How many All Blacks make our team?
With the Rugby Championship getting under way this weekend, Charlie Morgan picks his combined Springbok-All Black XV
Reasonable, but I expect on Monday to see a couple more ABs in such a team.
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@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I think it is "put your neck on the line and make some predictions" time for this game.
I'll start:
It will transpire that the AB's are actually much better than currently being credited.
And if they beat the Boks, the northern hemisphere scribes will deliriously pontificate on how the power in rugby has shifted up north and the World Cup is going to be a battle between Ireland, England and France.Conversely, maybe Ireland are actually pretty good?
Partly disagree. I don't think Ireland are pretty good. I think they are bloody good!
Agreed. My kiwi understatement. V impressed also how their coach built on the previous coaching.
