Springboks v All Blacks I
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@sparky said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
He doesn't have a fucking clue. Totally deluded.
He's not wrong about the Bok kick chasers waving their hands looking to slap the ball back. Arendse, and Kolbe, both do this.
Mapimpi in general is a very good kick chaser, but he attempts to catch the ball. He's in control of his jump. Not reckless.
Aside from that, I think I watched a different game to Foster. 🙈
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@Smuts said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@SidBarret didn’t say it did? But even your cherry-picked examples looked like poor responses to pressure applied in those phases.
The Frizell offside at sacked Bok lineout 5m from line was entirely self inflicted.
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@Chester-Draws said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Higgins said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter I just watching through the game again and I think you are being a little tricky with the truth. For example in the 20-30 minute period Beaudie received the ball as 1st receiver at either set piece or phase play only 3 times. Plenty of other players getting it at first receiver.
Beaudie is either in the second line or out the back during that period also.
He did some good things but he made some poor errors last night even with good ball. This is not even about pushing Mo’unga or any other player, but Beaudie hasn’t looked in control for a while and it sucks because he’s been a great player to watch. Ever since he was a rookie he’s been a high risk high reward player, but he learned to do that with control and and patience. He hasn’t played with control for a while now.
Dare we say it - ever since he went to Japan.
He's never been a good 10. He's a brilliant fullback (the only really good thing he did today, he did when marking at the back). These days he doesn't even shine very much at Super level.
We won't get any better until he is gone. I know it is horrible for a guy that has such individual talent, but he's not an international 10.
Our backline has never run smoothly with him in charge. Oh, we sometimes have flashes of individual brilliance, but never one that functions as a unit.
Boulderdash. If only we could see other games that BB hasn't been at 10 to get some form of comparison. Oh that's right, we have. It's exactly the same (if not worse) when RM is at 10. Same with DMac as well. None of them seem to have any idea about what to do under Foster. You have to blend that brilliant instinctive talent with the right tactics. It's not happening and it's frustrating as all hell to see us getting so little out of these 2 players. But obviously that doesn't just apply to them. It's the whole freaking backline. It's a structural issue.
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Boulderdash. If only we could see other games that BB hasn't been at 10 to get some form of comparison. Oh that's right, we have. It's exactly the same (if not worse) when RM is at 10. Same with DMac as well. None of them seem to have any idea about what to do under Foster. You have to blend that brilliant instinctive talent with the right tactics. It's not happening and it's frustrating as all hell to see us getting so little out of these 2 players. But obviously that doesn't just apply to them. It's the whole freaking backline. It's a structural issue.
and rush defense has really destroyed time and space for attacking players. Rugby is moving back into a grindfest - getting players into time and space is increasingly difficult.
We haven't recognised this, and want to run teams off their feet, when it's just no longer viable with the current way the game is reffed. You may get this if all refs had instructions to not stop for injuries - but that has legal risks. So, you get big munters playing stop/start, and no chance of actually speeding things up to the point where the extra weight becomes a problem. So it's grinding set pieces and penalties.
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Tēnā koe. I'm visiting NZ from my home in Sydney for the first time in several years this week and am writing to you from my hotel room in Christchurch. Over breakfast this morning and at the bar last night, I strained my ears to over-hear conversations about 'Bring On Razor', but all the talk was of the Commonwealth Games or, of all sports, golf - which I'm told is experiencing a renaissance here. No sign of roaming lynch squads, which could be a healthy sign for NZ rugby or, alternatively, that the public has given up.
I did note, however, that the front cover of the NZ Herald this morning is plastered with a full-page editorial calling for Foster to be flushed, although in more restrained terms than that: "A decent man who is out of his depth in a brutal business," was the chosen phrase for the death sentence from the anonymous editorial bench. It was just not five defeats out of six matches, the Herald opines, but the manner of the defeats. "Foster's men are too often cluttered and confused in the execution of their roles." This seems to be a nice way of saying they are playing like headless chooks. Which raises the question of why it took them three years to work that out.
On the plane on the way across the Ta$man, I caught up with the Argentina-Wallabies game and had a premonition of the Bledisloe Cup travelling in the other direction this year. The Wallabies played with real rhythm and intent, as did Los Pumas. There is certainly room for argument whether the likes of Hunter Paisami and Jordan Petaia are better players than their All Black opposites, but there is no doubt in my mind that they are better coached. And that is, and has always been, the problem.
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu. NZR need to get the cheque book out now and pay Foster out. It seems they almost certainly will at this point.. But that it was allowed to get this far is an indictment on the entire administration.
OK, I had better go and do some real work.
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@His-Bobness “ It was just not five defeats out of six matches, the Herald opines, but the manner of the defeats.”
It took the lapdog NZ rugby press time, but they’ve finaly reached the conclusion that the Fern, mostly, has had for a fair few years. But at least they got there!
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@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu.
Goddamn brilliant analogy.
I'll die in my ditch alone on this, but I can understand the initial Foster appointment because of the historic success. It's the reappointment last year that I was absolutely dirty on.
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@His-Bobness Silverfern royalty. Good to see you back ☺️
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan yeah scrums are a concern, however the only positive I can see is there aren't a huge number of scrums in the game nowadays, lineouts are 3 or 4 times more likely, and up until the Irish series we had a decent lineout...
But like you say, a defensive scrum on our own line might be time to get another strong drink!
We were getting pinged far too often, just not good enough. Add 2 not releasing penalties and Angus almost becomes the Boer MoM!
Just takes 1 bad scrum to lose a test, we had 4 penalties against in the first half alone? Bowers knee to ground pedantic though, that was good work to keep scrum up after slipping. Shouldn't be penalised for that!
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We’ll….I had been loosing enjoyment watching the abs and was honestly looking forward to the npc…and then the strongest Otago team in years lost….
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@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan yeah scrums are a concern, however the only positive I can see is there aren't a huge number of scrums in the game nowadays, lineouts are 3 or 4 times more likely, and up until the Irish series we had a decent lineout...
But like you say, a defensive scrum on our own line might be time to get another strong drink!
We were getting pinged far too often, just not good enough. Add 2 not releasing penalties and Angus almost becomes the Boer MoM!
Just takes 1 bad scrum to lose a test, we had 4 penalties against in the first half alone? Bowers knee to ground pedantic though, that was good work to keep scrum up after slipping. Shouldn't be penalised for that!
At least Gardner was consistent when he penalised Nyakane for putting his knee down.
All we ask for is consistency after all.
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@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan yeah scrums are a concern, however the only positive I can see is there aren't a huge number of scrums in the game nowadays, lineouts are 3 or 4 times more likely, and up until the Irish series we had a decent lineout...
But like you say, a defensive scrum on our own line might be time to get another strong drink!
We were getting pinged far too often, just not good enough. Add 2 not releasing penalties and Angus almost becomes the Boer MoM!
Just takes 1 bad scrum to lose a test, we had 4 penalties against in the first half alone? Bowers knee to ground pedantic though, that was good work to keep scrum up after slipping. Shouldn't be penalised for that!
So of the props out there in the squad, who would you start at tighthead next week?
I imagine Owen Franks isn't getting a late call up 😁
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Owen Franks is not a stupid call. Hold up the scrum, maul defense, hit every ruck, support the ball runner, and then sub early when the game gets a little looser.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Owen Franks is not a stupid call. Hold up the scrum, maul defense, hit every ruck, support the ball runner, and then sub early when the game gets a little looser.
Didn't say it was. I think his selection has merit. But he isn't in SA, so he isn't an option. Which was more what I was alluding to.
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu.
Goddamn brilliant analogy.
I'll die in my ditch alone on this, but I can understand the initial Foster appointment because of the historic success. It's the reappointment last year that I was absolutely dirty on.
I strongly disagreed with the initial Foster choice, because he hadn't been the head coach of a successful side, and pretty clearly that ought to be a requirement. Also we had seen Rennie take over his long-term Chiefs team and basically fix it overnight. At that time it was still possible to think 'well, maybe those inside the camp have seen enough from him to know that he is actually some sort of genius despite the lack of qualification - but they better be fucking right'.
Turns out they weren't, which makes the whole thing just an astonishing hiring debacle from the NZRU. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Kruse said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
You almost think they'd do better if they said "Fuck it, let's just go out there and have some fun - we might not win, but at least we'd be enjoying ourselves a bit"
B.Barrett in particular - whenever he has a blinder, it looks like he's just having a bit of a laugh with his mates and a rugby ball.
I don't know in which direction the Cause-Effect relationship is... but I've thought for a while that yeah... "give some basic strategy, but don't overfill their stupid little rugby-player heads - then pat them on the arse and let them go out on the field and have some fun" might be a decent coaching approach for some (not necessarily all) players.We hear they are a pretty together bunch off the field, but there seems a lot of tension and stress in the team on the field which is translating to their play. I noted Ardie being given a talking to by the Ref for back-chat - can't remember the last time I say that with a snr AB.
It's like riding the Honda on a gravel road. If you concentrate on not falling off you tense up, you will.
Didn’t that happen in the context of the BB hit and I think Ardie was pointing out that it went unpunished earlier in the game. Don’t mind that in that situation given how reckless and dangerous it was.
We’ve been marched 10 in the past for back chat - Coles, TJP come to mind.
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@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu. NZR need to get the cheque book out now and pay Foster out. It seems they almost certainly will at this point.. But that it was allowed to get this far is an indictment on the entire administration.
Nails it. Good health to you, HB!
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OK notes from the game. Fuck names I just picked numbers because I don't know who half these pricks are any more.
7th minute - black 5 a bit lucky not to get done for deliberate knockdown after looking up and slapping at the ball.
10:21 - can't believe green 14 wasn't done for taking out black 15. I suspect this will be a pattern based on subsequent comments here...
Subsequent scrum: going nowhere. Why not call use it? Black 1 was under pressure from the get go but everything was stationary
Cane has already missed Wiesser twice off the back of Green scrum.
17:40 green 2 gets the penalty at ruck - green 13 just managed to push black 1 off his line running into the ruck to clean out. Very AB-like in its cynicism.
Black 15 is getting outmuscled by green 14 - physically a lightweight.
24:56 black 10 counterattacks and makes a break - the amount of green bodies running interference lines or late contact here was great. Green 13 should have been done for a shoulder charge on black 13. Green 14 holding black 13 in the same movement off the ball.
26:46 black 3 overextending at scrum. Correct call
28:54 great turnover black 8
37:04 goodscrum by black - green 1 had his knees hit the deck on engage, then recovered but was in trouble from that point. Subbed shortly after
Jeez shocking inside pop to nobody from black 9. Been a few of thoseHalftime thoughts: ABs trying to play like they did a decade ago. Which worked except when people made tackles and refused to do stupid shit in their own half. Like the Boks have been doing since just before RWC2019.
Second half start more aggressive from black
41:44 shocking kick from black 14.
43:11 High kick into the 22 from green and no fewer than 8 black players are running towards it. Why? The lack of communication has black 7 taking out black 15 and losing the ball. Luckily they turn it over shortly after
Green starting to play some silly buggers with medical staff
nobody is shocked.
46:00 Great break from set piece. Then black 15 throws the triple cut out, runs black 11 out of space
47:12 black 10 went one handed at the ball. Why no penalty? That is literally the standard used against the Wallabies mere weeks ago...
48:40 this is the scrum @pakman wanted to look at.The picture the ref is seeing: black 18 goes down under pressure and his feet are goneskis. Yes both sides are probably a bit guilty, but green 17 has his sprigs in the turf, and black 18 has his sprigs in the air. Easy call.
52:50 another turnover from green 2. Black starting to get frustrated in the ref's face.
54:32 great kick from black 12 - first time he'd done basically anything except defend
55:15 ref calls against Black 20 for offside at subsequent lineout BUT green were also offside in their own ball. Should have told both to get back and let it breathe IMHO. Still, silly error when you're in their 22.
56:14 green told to use it. Another green player joins the ruck. More than 5 seconds elapse. Should have been a short arm against.
56:49 black 13 transfers pressure rather than going into touch. Silly.
61:17 black lineout 30m out picked off. Green 14 bangs it into touch under pressure - helluva nudge. Shame it was carried back into the 22.
62:20 black maul going nowhere. Black 9 forced to go into the ruck after nobody supports black 12. Black 16 knocks on a few metres out.
63:45 oh man - Black try to go quick on the lineout and not straight to the front player. Coaches are frustrated.The TV director is shitting me. Long shots for lineouts. Focusing on players rather than the action. Why do I need to see the backs fixing their hair while a lineout is starting? Do your fucking job.
Game enters a period of stagnation. Handling errors, forward passes. Scrums. Eesh.
68:40 Christie on. Smith had been really crisp - still got it on the passing.
69:00 ABs never make Ad line a single time off a lineout and tried to run out of their half. Not smart, and probably not a coincidence Mo'unga is on.
72:23 Grass cutter / cannonball tackle from Green 16. One hand on the ground, one "wrapping". Should have been penalised. Not the first one from green players either, I might add. A midfield bomb from black just outside their 22. What?
73:15 green 14 takes out Black 10. That was beyond clumsy and hardly an aerial challenge. Red every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
73:44 Black 23 crossing in front of Black 12 is the 12th penalty conceded by Black against 6 from the Boks. Jeez.
77:53 Black 20 scores after a couple of passes in no-man's land and Black 11 hitting a line between 2 props. Nothing structured about that - individual talent but worth noting that keeping the ball alive eventually broke down the Bok structures (bench tho) and got a mismatch. Not nearly enough of that IMHO.
That last try was just embarrassing...
