Foster, Robertson etc
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@game_film said in Foster:
Did Robinson not scenario plan the last fortnight?
Win both: Fozzy has to stay and mostly everyone would agree that was fair.
Lose both badly: Fozzy gots to go.
Anything in between (1-1, game drawn, play great but lose 2 thrillers, players sent off):
Do nothing. Wait to see if the ABs avoid disaster vs Pumas and retain Bledisloe.
Robinson is obviously a terrible communicator and has no vision and is completely lacking in self awareness. Not great traits for a CEO.
Plan? Wait what?
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@Bovidae but would NZR let that dirty laundry out? They seem to try and keep a positive spin aka 'due diligence' (fuck, I really dislike their mealy mouthed corp speak guff) going at every layer. It'd be very easy for them to say things were positive even if there was some pointed criticism of Foster. Again, another situation where the assistant coaches are treated very differently to the big cheese.
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I don’t think the players views have any significant weight in all this. Unless there is a Brumbies like coup/revolt happening… but this is a national team and no one is bigger than the jersey and all that…
The players are not making the decision. Player reviews are all part of the engagement strategy of the NZRU as an organisation. The way I look at it, the players didn’t have a say in the appointment, so why would their views matter now.
Comments from players do certainly add colour to it all and give journos and us fans plenty to discuss.
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All I am saying is that the feedback from the player reviews would be known to Robinson, Lendrum and the board so would inform their decision regardless of what the players may be saying publicly.
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The Breakdown panel are basically ripping Robinson and the rest of the board for their lack of clarity over Foster's future, and their incompetence over club rugby, 7s, the BFs, and Silverlake. I don't disagree with them. Foster may not be the man for the job. But the pressure Robinson has put him under with all of his nothing talk, and 3 reviews within 9 months including 2 in a couple of months, the CEO should have the stones to fire him or back him
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The Breakdown panel are basically ripping Robinson and the rest of the board for their lack of clarity over Foster's future, and their incompetence over club rugby, 7s, the BFs, and Silverlake. I don't disagree with them. Foster may not be the man for the job. But the pressure Robinson has put him under with all of his nothing talk, and 3 reviews within 9 months including 2 in a couple of months, the CEO should have the stones to fire him or back him
Board decision, not CEO, he can make recommendations, but that's it
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@Paekakboyz said in Foster:
No further comment till that time. FFS what a waste of time.
edit - Then he throws it to the board.
Robinson confirms that any discussions on Ian Foster's future will include the New Zealand Rugby board. The timing on those discussions is still yet to be determined. “The appointment of the coach is the board's responsibility, management provides insight, we will provide that to them.”Does the board really decide? Is that normal? I thought these sorts of boards are usually advisory?
Or is he deflecting responsibility?
Our Board
Our Board is charged with setting strategy, direction and policy for New Zealand Rugby, and is ultimately responsible for the decisions and actions of NZR Management and Staff.
Our Board is charged with setting strategy, direction and policy for New Zealand Rugby, and is ultimately responsible for the decisions and actions of NZR Management and Staff. Many of the decisions concerning New Zealand's national teams, domestic competitions, financial management and rugby traditions can only be made by a vote of the Board.Oh ok then. Marketing and accounting-they just don't seem replete with coaching//high performance experience?
https://www.nzrugby.co.nz/about-nzr/governance/our-board/ -
Any decision next week other than retention would be extremely poor management. Which is to admit NZRU may do it.
Whatever one thinks about things that performance tells us the changing shed is still on board.
If it were me, I'd ask why it took till second test to click that back to basics was necessary.
And then set target of three wins from four in rest of RC, failing which changes would be made.
That would mean Bledisloe retained, and likely another RC.
Last year's EOYT failures suggest the strategy for touring also needs a rethink, but that can wait.
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The problem as I see it is that he should have been sacked before the RC started.
To be honest he should have been launched after the EOYT.
and then the real elephant in the room is he should have never got the gig in the first place.
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The problem as I see it is that he should have been sacked before the RC started.
To be honest he should have been launched after the EOYT.
and then the real elephant in the room is he should have never got the gig in the first place.
Be that as it may, we have to play the cards as they fall.
So long as Joe Schmidt has large involvement in selection and game plan I can live with the status quo.
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The problem as I see it is that he should have been sacked before the RC started.
Yep, but that ship has sailed and now NZR finds itself in a real mess.
Do they sack him next week and give any new coach a potential changing room problem as the players think they have turned the corner & are obviously behind Foster? Or do they keep him on until the RC or EOYT and then sack him giving any new coach minimal time to prepare for RWC2023?
You'd think NZR have thought this thru but I'm not convinced. Maybe the best way forward is Foster decides or is persuaded to stand down himself and/or take an assistant role. I might think he should be replaced, but he comes across to me as a pretty decent bloke who'd want to do the right thing.
And one thing's for sure, any new coach is going to have a pretty tough time initially as people will expect results. Doubt if that's been thought thru either.
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Could a new co coach scenario be a possibility
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
I don’t think the players views have any significant weight in all this. Unless there is a Brumbies like coup/revolt happening… but this is a national team and no one is bigger than the jersey and all that…
The players are not making the decision. Player reviews are all part of the engagement strategy of the NZRU as an organisation. The way I look at it, the players didn’t have a say in the appointment, so why would their views matter now.
Comments from players do certainly add colour to it all and give journos and us fans plenty to discuss.
The main relevance of the players views at the moment is with respect to how they might feel and then perform if Foster is replaced - if Ardie has Fozzies back 100% then how is he going to feel and perform when Razor takes over
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@BerniesCorner said in Foster:
Could a new co coach scenario be a possibility
I hope not. Wylie-Hart was a fiasco.
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@game_film yeah you'd like to think after the last meeting they supposedly had some strict expectations were put in place, with this very scenario being one.
I'd have thought when they extended his contract last year they would have put KPIs in, and to me, winning home series v Ireland and retatinng Bledisloe would have been absolute musts, finish top 2 in RC is must.
But, based on the fact they are having to pay him out to get rid of him, indicates there were probably no such indicators.
I guess you have to look at his team now, and ask if this is the team he wants now? Would he cut McLeod or any others loose to bolster it and stay in the job himself.
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@BerniesCorner said in Foster:
Could a new co coach scenario be a possibility
I hope not. Wylie-Hart was a fiasco.
True, though my hunch is that Foster is a lot more affable and collaborative than those two. Depends very much on any co-coach though.
They may well decide that they have something close to it now with Schmidt and Ryan in the mix.
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@Donsteppa said in Foster:
@BerniesCorner said in Foster:
Could a new co coach scenario be a possibility
I hope not. Wylie-Hart was a fiasco.
True, though my hunch is that Foster is a lot more affable and collaborative than those two. Depends very much on any co-coach though.
They may well decide that they have something close to it now with Schmidt and Ryan in the mix.
Bang on. Foster himself has said that the adversity has changed him, that other approaches/ideas have been accepted (I assume from Ryan and Joe)
He clearly hasn't lost the support of the players (which is the biggest red flag and reason to dump a coach) so why not let that evolution continue? You obviously end up with someone who is demonstrably a very good man manager (I would challenge someone else to get through these last weeks with their team in the manner he has - it was very impressive) alongside some good rugby brains and abilities.
I think they all know there is room to keep evolving as well now they are over this massive hurdle. Throwing big changes in there during the last few games was probably thought of internally as looking like panic instead of trust.
I think we are over the Front Row youth debate. Stick there now and move on. The midfield solution is next. Lets see if RTS can get on the field and show us something (his lack of kicking game and positional flexibility probably isn't in his favour though)
I think we will see Grace come back into contention. He didn't time his performances well as far as consistency went but is clearly in that space now.
By not making a decision to move past Foster in the off season, NZR have ended up in a bad situation if they want change. The emotional disruption and mistrust among some players will now be harder to accept. There will be feelings of guilt from players that blame themselves etc. All of that could have been watered down far more easily if it was a case of 'we are re-setting and moving on' with time to do it.There's a lot of people and media dying to have their personal views validated at the moment but the key is to take a step back and look at the consequences and advantages of ditching him right at this moment.
Are we looking at the future situation of lessons being applied or the past mistakes that lead to those lessons.One thing I do know and that is that he has demonstrated that he deserves far better than some of the shit being slung his way. If anything one of his failures has been giving others too much chance to atone for theirs. He has a muppet as a boss and handled the situation with the type of trust among the squad that everyone points to as one of Razor's key strengths.
If the progress doesn't continue (and there will be hiccups) and he is obviously the road block then by all means get him out of the way but I have a feeling that a battle hardened coach and team that have been through adversity may be just what we need to change the mindset of turning up to games with underlying entitlement.
