The Current State of Rugby
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA seriously though, its one thing to come on here, have a vent, mark up some screen shots with red arrows.....its the abuse they cop directly that's bad, all the shit stirring in the media that make WR/NZR keep changing shit to try and appease people
People make a thousand different videos/screenshots of views with how things "should have been" because the myriad of laws allow for too much interpretation and its now so complex the refs have to take more time to work though their own process. Who made the rules that way? WR
I can't blame a scribe or punter for venting either, they sell their opinion that way.
If WR really want to help the refs and the viewing public they do need to change the rules further and rather than just the "lets just add on sub section 903 approach", in my opinion they need to remove half of them and modify what's left to be clear. Simplify the message.
Yes, you will still have human errors, but you will by default make it easier for decisions to be correct and allow a faster decision making process to be reached.
its a mess, as is the current spectacle
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@bayimports agreed, i realised the thread has moved on a lot from the last time i mentioned the rules need to be sorted so my last comment comes across like there is nothing wrong, i would go back to first principles, 15 on each team, no passing forward, scrum and linesouts are things....whats next?
i just think a lot of us could also do ourselves a favour by chilling out a little
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VAR/TMO/3rd Umpire was brought in to stop fans whinging about how they were robbed. And absolutely nothing changed. In any sport it was introduced to.
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref. And will always find evidence to support their team being dudded. Sport is human endeavor, and human endeavor comes with errors. From players and officials. -
@mariner4life agree, I don't think anyone will ever have the perfect solution because of this. But you can increase accuracy through simplification
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Sort of agree with the rule book. But i do like that rugby is a lot more technical than other football codes. The problem the game has from a rule book perspective is, it is supposed to be a game of constant contest, and contests will require judgement, from players and officials. There is no way for it to be any other way. Rugby League is a very basic game, and therefore a lot easier to officiate.
I would be a lot happier with the game as a spectacle if two things happened:
The ref was the sole judge of everything. I would allow a captains challenge per game if there absolutely must be something. Otherwise what the ref and touchies say goes.
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball. I would go like league with the 6-again, whereby if you get a penalty inside your 40m line, you get to kick down the field. Otherwise tap and go. Get back to a game where having the ball is still the biggest goal.Neither of these things will ever happen, i understand that.
I also get fans of other nations would vociferously call my attitudes idiocy, i also understand that. -
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
VAR/TMO/3rd Umpire was brought in to stop fans whinging about how they were robbed. And absolutely nothing changed. In any sport it was introduced to.
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref. And will always find evidence to support their team being dudded. Sport is human endeavor, and human endeavor comes with errors. From players and officials.Amen, and I abhor the whinging and screenshot shit, we see put up here, and why anyone thinks it should be NZR along with WR explaining etc, sure doesn't look at many rugby forums, it every rugby board in the world needs to do it?
Or more in my opinion, most so called fans of sports need to take a look at themselves, as most whingers etc on almost any forum you see, aren't sports fans, just want to ride on back of winning team? Usually because maybe they couldn't do it themselves and this is how they get to crow?
Personally think anyone who puts a screenshot on a forum to show a supposed foull play. forward pass/or any bad call should be awarded a kick in the bollocks!, And anyone that likes them can get away with a clip under the ears. -
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Personally think anyone who puts a screenshot on a forum to show a supposed foull play. forward pass/or any bad call should be awarded a kick in the bollocks!, And anyone that likes them can get away with a clip under the ears.
thanks Kim Jong Un
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
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@Kiwiwomble yep, scrumming for pens, or worse, in the 22, scrumming for a PT and YC does my head in.
IMO, there are some minor changes (largely enforcement of existing rules) that could be made that would help the game immesnely.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
Could be a case of careful what you wish for though... if we go towards this model, you would basically be taking props out the game, and would be going more towards an U85 style of game, because you'd need to be so fit, as there would be far fewer stoppages.
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@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
Everything is a trade-off I suppose. It would be a drastic alteration... and of course this won't ever happen, so in many ways it doesn't matter.
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
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@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
So rugby league scrums? Which is fine, but this sort of feels like rugby league, but with rucks and no tackle count. I like that in union there are several ways to skin a cat. Some teams strength lies in the tight five... Uruguay for instance, very good at set piece this morning, and it helped them compete with France who would otherwise destroy them.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
So rugby league scrums? Which is fine, but this sort of feels like rugby league, but with rucks and no tackle count. I like that in union there are several ways to skin a cat. Some teams strength lies in the tight five... Uruguay for instance, very good at set piece this morning, and it helped them compete with France who would otherwise destroy them.
aye? rugby league scrums? when 120kg SA props are rolling over their 95kg opposites and getting the ball? when has that ever been in league? Use a bit of lateral thought
And there really isn't many ways to skin a cat in modern rugby. That's a dated concept.
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@frugby one is a dynamic situation of unequal circumstances, players, speed etc, so alot more going on.
A scrum, as @mariner4life says, is a restart, both equal and set, one foot slips and penalised, you get your timing wrong, and penalised, you get it right, opposition guy times his engage slightly late but you get pinged for going down...and then soemtimes they are simply reset
Agree on part 2, which is something that the Canadian ref in the Northland v HB game did well, they had a dominant, but super dominant scrum, she called them to play it when they were playing for the 2nd shove and penalty quite often, kept the game flowing instead of endless pens or resets
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@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
lol yeah do you know many ABs fans?
easier to find than many Wallaby fans..
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
