Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match
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YC warning?
Yeah. Deserved too.
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@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Machpants said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Machpants said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Duluth said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Duluth ABs were "smashed" in Dublin last November and the Irish performance was savoured in the NH as a standout. Do the AB performances now get an asterisk against them?
Not sure who you are arguing with or what you are arguing about
I wasn't arguing
Just a comment to yours. Touring sides in NH rarely get an excuse that they are at the end of a long season or that they are playing second stringers. You can only beat what is put in front of you, tired or not. All end of year tours have an element of fatigue for the touring side.
Cos the ABs are (should be) above excuses
When ABs were so far ahead of the pack, that was understandable. Now there is no gap, the small differences that fatigue (especially mental) have on performance can be acknowledged.
Winning away from home at the end of the season is achievable, but not to be expected. You guys had a ridiculous run in the NH for a period in 2000s/2010s.
Nope the fans and ABs demand for excellence is what keeps it. No excuses, and foster 'long season' excuses are a big help for decent into the pack. If he fell on his sword when they lost to arg, or Hansen did when didn't win the lions, then ABs would still be ahead. With hungrier, more innovative coaches
See, I beg to differ. Some nations are blessed with the raw materials (SA), some nations have buckets of cash (England), some nations have structured their rugby to develop a high performance set up akin to NZ that identifies top players (Ireland). Then you have a team like France that has a bit from each category.
It goes in cycles. The fact that the ABs are still more than just competitive having lost a cohort of players that are talked about as legends of NZ rugby (McCaw, Carter, Nonu, C. Smith, Kaino, Read, B.Smith) is simply outstanding. The next crop were always going to struggle when compared to those that went before them.
I think the ABs post-2023 have the players and coaches (both provincial and national) to reclaim no.1 spot.
That's not how I see it. ABs lost first time to Ireland by coaching complacency. Both in selections and having the team there for a big party week leading up to the game. Then the tactics that won 15 RWC were found out by the lions. Hansen should have retired then, as was the plan. Foster, basically Hansen 2, would have had his 2 years to fail as badly at RWC 19. Time for razor or whomever. ABs have the cattle to still be dominant, but our coaching/tactics have not changed in years. Since 17 we've been promised tactics that defeat rush defence and better forward dominance. It has happened rarely, maybe when the players just go hard not following team structure (dunno) but it is possible. But we've not seen it as default, ABs current malaise is totally an acceptance of late Hansen mediocrity and conservative governance & coaching
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Pressure building and building and they get a reward.
Need to get back down the right end of the field.
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@Machpants said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@chimoaus said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
Ireland much better this half. Finally scored.
Yup but Maori should hold out
Easily. Ireland need 3 scores in 12 minutes
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Why would you stop play there when the ball is clearly going to move away on counterattack?
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@antipodean said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
Why would you stop play there when the ball is clearly going to move away on counterattack?
To be fair I think TJP was calling for it to stop too.
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@Machpants said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Machpants said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Machpants said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Duluth said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@stodders said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@Duluth ABs were "smashed" in Dublin last November and the Irish performance was savoured in the NH as a standout. Do the AB performances now get an asterisk against them?
Not sure who you are arguing with or what you are arguing about
I wasn't arguing
Just a comment to yours. Touring sides in NH rarely get an excuse that they are at the end of a long season or that they are playing second stringers. You can only beat what is put in front of you, tired or not. All end of year tours have an element of fatigue for the touring side.
Cos the ABs are (should be) above excuses
When ABs were so far ahead of the pack, that was understandable. Now there is no gap, the small differences that fatigue (especially mental) have on performance can be acknowledged.
Winning away from home at the end of the season is achievable, but not to be expected. You guys had a ridiculous run in the NH for a period in 2000s/2010s.
Nope the fans and ABs demand for excellence is what keeps it. No excuses, and foster 'long season' excuses are a big help for decent into the pack. If he fell on his sword when they lost to arg, or Hansen did when didn't win the lions, then ABs would still be ahead. With hungrier, more innovative coaches
See, I beg to differ. Some nations are blessed with the raw materials (SA), some nations have buckets of cash (England), some nations have structured their rugby to develop a high performance set up akin to NZ that identifies top players (Ireland). Then you have a team like France that has a bit from each category.
It goes in cycles. The fact that the ABs are still more than just competitive having lost a cohort of players that are talked about as legends of NZ rugby (McCaw, Carter, Nonu, C. Smith, Kaino, Read, B.Smith) is simply outstanding. The next crop were always going to struggle when compared to those that went before them.
I think the ABs post-2023 have the players and coaches (both provincial and national) to reclaim no.1 spot.
That's not how I see it. ABs lost first time to Ireland by coaching complacency. Both in selections and having the team there for a big party week leading up to the game. Then the tactics that won 15 RWC were found out by the lions. Hansen should have retired then, as was the plan. Foster, basically Hansen 2, would have had his 2 years to fail as badly at RWC 19. Time for razor or whomever. ABs have the cattle to still be dominant, but our coaching/tactics have not changed in years. Since 17 we've been promised tactics that defeat rush defence and better forward dominance. It has happened rarely, maybe when the players just go hard not following team structure (dunno) but it is possible. But we've not seen it as default, ABs current malaise is totally an acceptance of late Hansen mediocrity and conservative governance & coaching
Other teams, especially France and SA, have had decent players coming through u20 level. A few of them are legitimate best in world I'm candidates.
Agreed that top level, innovative coaching would make a huge difference. IMO, that is what will separate teams at the top level. Look at how Ireland and France have evolved in last 3-4 years. ABs don't have 5 or 6 players who would make the world team XV right now which would put them ahead of the rest.
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Healy was also on that 2012 tour too
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Er, OK...thier set peice has been strong, why not back themselves
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@ACT-Crusader said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
@antipodean said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
Why would you stop play there when the ball is clearly going to move away on counterattack?
To be fair I think TJP was calling for it to stop too.
Yup. He may not be the player he was, but I've got a lot of respect for TJ. He was calling the so cos he saw the Irish player was badly injured. Same as him telling the ref not to bother with TMO when he didn't score
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@taniwharugby said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
Er, OK...thier set peice has been strong, why not back themselves
And he misses lol.
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Please don’t take the kick for goal again….
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@ACT-Crusader said in Maori All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Match:
Please don’t take the kick for goal again….
Does drop goal attempt count? 🤣
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Seriously? At this point a penalty then a DG
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Why is Love on the field?
